Is Vajrayana Buddhism a Cult Religion? Part 1
‘Cult’ is a word that has different definitions, but the definition that concerns us here is the negative one. According to the Google Dictionary a cult is “a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object, in particular a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.” Also a “misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular thing.”
‘A system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object’ does apply to vajrayana as a whole but also equally to Christianity, so that aspect of the definition is not the key point here, neither is the fact that TB is strange to many in West. The aspect that makes the difference between religion and cult is ‘imposing excessive control over members,’ and ‘misplaced or excessive admiration.’
So what is ‘excessive’ and what is ‘misplaced’? To answer this we have to look further.
The Family Survival Trust has a succinct checklist for cults that is useful for separating a religion from a cult:
Cults are dissociative, separating members from families, friends and colleagues—this is not a requirement for vajrayana practice since it can be done alone (caves are the traditional place) or within one’s own society and family, but when a lama keeps a group of attendants or people he relies on around him and doesn’t permit them to engage in normal social and family relationships or leave at will, or tells them what they can and can’t do particularly in terms of their personal relationships, then they have slipped into cult territory.
Cults tend to be psychologically manipulative or abusive in order to exploit and control members commercially or sexually—this is pretty clear. There are plenty of vajrayana communities around where the lamas do not abuse their students, therefore abuse and psychological manipulation are not part of the religion. If anyone is being abused by a lama and members don’t see it as abuse (when it is quite clear to anyone outside the group that the behaviour constitutes abuse), then the members are being psychologically manipulated and the group has become a cult. (Abuse is NOT crazy wisdom—as Mingyur Rinpoche said in his article on the Lion’s Roar, “The results of genuine “crazy wisdom” are always positive and visible.”) If members’ money is not being used for
the purpose for which is was given, those members are being commercially exploited and the group has slipped across the line into cult territory. Some cults can also be physically abusive—also clear. If the lama is regularly hitting or punching people, it’s a cult. Vajrayana does not require students to be hit or punched. It can be practiced without the lama abusing his students in any way. Even if you believe the abuse is ‘crazy wisdom’, even if you believe it is transformative, that is irrelevant when determining cult status. A cult is determined by how it acts, not what it believes. If your lama regularly hits and punches people and the beliefs to which you subscribe make his or her hitting and punching (or any other abusive behaviour) acceptable, your vajrayana community can be called a cult.
The guru and/or upper ranks of the cult are supported in a relatively comfortable lifestyle by the exploitation of lower ranking members—a comfortable lifestyle is not necessary for vajrayana practice, in fact a humble lifestyle and generosity to others are more in line with the marks of a great practitioner. A lama who has his feet massaged by two women while another massages his back and two others work on his hands has slipped into cult territory since one masseur is quite sufficient. Other signs are such things as demanding better food than others in the household, expensive accommodations and so on.
Cults are totalitarian in structure and thrive on master-slave dependency—certainly Tibetan Buddhism is totalitarian and the master-slave roles are embedded in the feudal system in its history. The feudal system is cultural, however, not religious. Vajrayana can be practiced without either of these. Not all lamas treat their students as slaves. Institute a democratic model where the lama is ‘employed’ by the board and remove the ‘obey or else’ emphasis that some lamas subscribe to, and the issue is solved. The lama will still have spiritual authority, but not temporal authority. There is a good reason why
the church is separated from the state in Western democracies. This point pinpoints the area in which Tibetan Buddhism as a whole must make changes. Cults are “socially addictive” and the harm they cause is similar in some ways to other forms of addiction such as gambling, and even drug or alcohol abuse—I guess people could become addicted to Vajrayana—all those beautiful images and sounds are very alluring—but few practice diligently enough to get
‘hooked’ on the actual practice, and, if they did, such an addiction is not harmful in the worldly sense, though it wouldn’t help one spiritually to be stuck in practice that is contrived. Dependency on a lama to the extent that members cannot make decisions for themselves, however, is harmful. Though the magic of it is alluring to some, vajrayana itself is not inherently addictive, and it is only harmful if people feel that their lama can do anything they want irrespective of the laws of the land.
My conclusion in terms of this checklist is that vajrayana as a religion is not a cult, but that a vajrayana community can become a cult in the same way that a Christian community can. But this list doesn’t give much weight to the ‘religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure’ aspect of our original cult definition, and this aspect is particularly relevant in terms of vajrayana, particularly in ascertaining what turns a vajrayana community into a cult.
Devotion to an abstract principle or an individual?
As I quoted in the article titles Is Rigpa Cult? Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph.D, a cult expert, says “the difference between cults and religions is that in religions the devotion goes to an abstract principle whereas in a cult the devotion is to an individual. … The follower turns over their decision-making and give complete obedience in return for having secrets revealed to them.”
Though vajrayana may look as if the student’s devotion must be to an individual rather than an abstract principle, my understanding is that this is not the most transformative way of understanding the object of one’s devotion in vajrayana, at least not in these times. The idea that our devotion is to the personality of the teacher, the person, rather than to the teacher principle that he embodies can, especially if he or she is not a qualified teacher and demands that the students have only one lama, bring the vajrayana community into cult territory.
When teachers were more reliable, and in a society where the word ‘cult’ in its meaning as an abusive community employing manipulation tactics and excessive control over its members did not (and still doesn’t) exist, there would be no need to make a distinction between the teacher as he represents the teacher principle and the teacher as a person, but now, in the West, I believe there is. The Words of My Perfect Teacher is about how to relate to a perfect teacher, but should we take those teachings literally when our teacher is more likely to be imperfect?
Even Patrul Rinpoche said on page 138, “As times have degenerated, nowadays, it is difficult to find a teacher who has every one of the qualities described in the precious tantras.”
I had an imperfect teacher. I always knew he was not perfect, so for myself, for my own practice I had to work this point out. Maybe I got it wrong, but I completed my Ngondro and two of my three roots with my devotion to my teacher in his role as teacher, not to the person, and for me it was the only way I could feel the transformative power of the practices. Specifically my devotion was to my teacher when, in the state of devotion to his masters and resting in the true nature of his mind, he was a Buddha, and in that state he introduced me to the nature of my mind. I distinguished this Sogyal from the one that came late to teachings, made us wait hours for lunch, yelled at people, and, as I discovered last year, much worse.
Some may question this separation of man from teacher, but the Dalai Lama appears to have taken the same approach in his practice.
“On the level of our personal spiritual practice, it is important to have faith in and reverence for our guru and to see that person in a positive light in order to make spiritual progress. But on the level of general Buddhism in society, seeing all actions of our teacher as perfect is like poison and can be misused. This attitude spoils our entire teachings by giving teachers a free hand to take undue advantage. If faith were sufficient to gain realizations,
there would be no need for qualified teachers. … have had many teachers, and I cannot accept seeing all their actions as pure. My two regents, who were among my sixteen teachers, fought one another in a power struggle that even involved the Tibetan army. When I sit on my meditation seat, I feel both were kind to me, and I have profound respect for both of them. Their fights do not matter. But when I had to deal with what was going on in the society, I said to them, “What you’re doing is wrong!” We should not feel a conflict in loyalties by acting in this way. In our practice, we can view the guru’s behavior as that of a mahasiddha, and in dealings with society, follow the general Buddhist approach and say that that behavior is wrong.” HHDL Dharamasalla 1993
Rigpa Wiki explains the four kinds of teachers as taught to us in Rigpa:
the individual teacher who is the holder of the lineage
the teacher which is the word of the buddhas
the symbolic teacher of all appearances
the absolute teacher, which is rigpa, the true nature of mind
On page 148 of the TBLD Sogyal says: “Remember that the master—the guru—embodies the crystallisation of the blessings of all buddhas, masters, and enlightened beings.”
So who should our devotion really be to? The individual teacher or the teacher principle which is a much broader concept? It would be nice if it could be both, but isn’t it ultimately not to the person who gives the teachings but to something more profound?
“The guru is the nature of our mind.” Dilgo Khyentse. Primordial Purity
Guru Rinpoche (not our physical teacher) is who we invoke in Guru Yoga, and he ‘is the universal master’ who ‘embodies a cosmic timeless principle.’ (TBLD p 149). When understood this way, our devotion in practice is to an ‘abstract principle’ not an individual and therefore does not fit the cult label, but in Rigpa, devotion to the person of Sogyal was emphasised. This is the point at which vajrayana can become a cult. Beware if your teacher suggests you visualise them in your practice rather than the embodiment of the wisdom and compassion of all the enlightened beings in the form of the representative of the teachers of your lineage, such as Guru Rinpoche or Vajradhara.
“Once we have realized the nature of our mind, it is no longer necessary to search for the guru outside. If the view of the mind is maintained beyond meditation and post meditation, the guru is present beyond meeting and parting.” Dilgo Khyentse. Primordial Purity
It seems important to me that to avoid slipping into cult territory we need to separate the teacher as a representative of an abstract principle from the human being with their human deficiencies.
In an article about Buddhism Dagyab Rinpoche said, “We Tibetans are aware of some Western followers who believe that Tibetan lamas are enlightened buddhas and infallible gurus, despite their all-too-human deficiencies. It is disillusioned Westerners, who in the course of their lives have experienced the total collapse of their ideals, and who cling to the wishful image of a holy and healing Tibetan tradition. Wherever angst, insecurity, and despair are strong, there is a corresponding desire for something superior, and Westerners project fatherly power upon the lamas. A false understanding of Buddhist teachings, especially that of the Vajrayana, has impelled these projections.”
Hopefully our lamas can give us the true understanding of the vajrayana teachings, not teach a ‘false understanding’ that does nothing for the student, only makes the lamas kings of their own kingdom with slaves that do their bidding without question. If we misunderstand, it is because we were not taught correctly or our lama did not clear up our confusion. Perhaps some of our lamas are confused themselves. In giving talks to the modern world that adhere slavishly to possibly provisional teachings given for people in ancient feudal cultures, rather than teaching from a definitive understanding of the teachings, they may be harming the dharma they think they are protecting.
Chatral Rinpoche said “Support and take refuge in those spiritual masters who focus their practice in solitary retreat. Before one attains enlightenment, one should also enter into solitary retreat to focus on one’s practice under his or her close guidance and mentorship. If not, it will be just like now, where everywhere is flooded with Khenpos who give empty talks. Those ignorant ones, who run after fame and fortune, and establish their own factions, will cause people to have aversion for Buddhism and lead to the extinction of Buddhism sooner or later. Hence, it is said that the authentic Dharma is not in the monasteries, it is not in the books and not in the material world, but within the mind. There is a need to awaken it through practice and to realise (actualise) it, in order to be called the continuation or preservation of the Dharma.”
Misplaced or excessive devotion
An article in the Buddhist Controversy blog gives traditional teachings on teachers to avoid, but Lifehacker in their article on what constitutes a cult gives a helpful modern perspective on teachers to avoid if you want to avoid a cult.
“Cults are formed around strong leaders, so take a serious look at the motives and personality of the person in charge. According to Morantz and other cult experts, control-freak cult leaders are nearly interchangeable.
Narcissistic personality: Dangerous cult leaders usually hold grandiose notions of their place in the world. Ability to read others: “A guy like Charles Manson had the ability to spot who, at a party, that he thought he could control. It just seems to be in his personality,” Morantz said. Cult leaders “have the ability to size you up, and realise your weaknesses and get to your buttons”. Claims of special powers: If a leader claims he’s smarter, holier and more pure than everyone else, think twice about signing up. Charisma meets anger: Dangerous cult leaders can be extremely loving, charming and affectionate, but often turn angry and abusive with no warning. This mercurial presentation keeps members off balance.”
In the hands of someone with this kind of personality, vajrayana is dangerous indeed. Certainly such people are not a healthy focus for one’s devotion. Especially if one forgets that devotion should not be mindless adoration. On p 140 in the TBLD Sogyal says, “It [devotion] is not an abdication of your responsibility to yourself, nor undiscriminating following of another’s personality or whim. Real devotion is rooted in an awed and reverent gratitude, one that is lucid, grounded, and intelligent.”
Wise words, but in practice this is not the kind of devotion I saw in Rigpa.
The take away here is that the temptation for someone with this personality profile to use vajrayana for his or her own personal gratification would likely be too hard for them to resist. If they also allow their students to think and act as if pure perception means that the teacher is pure and the student is not, and if they also have a nihilistic view of emptiness, we have even more likelihood that such a teacher will abuse their power.
Minguyr Rinpoche in his Lions Roar article on Sept 24th 2017 reminds us of the essential points of samaya and pure perception. “Many people misunderstand samaya and think it refers only to seeing the teacher as a buddha, a fully awakened being. That is part of samaya, but it misses the key point. Samaya is about seeing everyone and everything through the lens of pure perception. …The sole purpose of viewing the teacher as a buddha is so we can see these same awakened qualities in ourselves, in others, and in the world around us. It is a tool that helps us to gain confidence in the purity of our true nature.”
And on the nihilistic view, Traleg Kyabgon in Moonbeams of Mahamudra. (Pages 272,273) says. “Meditators who take emptiness as an object of conceptual understanding abstract the concept of emptiness from their immediate experience of the phenomenal word. They deny the validity of karma because of this misunderstanding. They think ultimate reality must go beyond our normal concepts of good and bad, since it is empty and therefore, anything goes. This delegitimises the whole notion of morality. This fixation on the concept of emptiness leads to a denial of relative reality in the empirical world.”
And from HHDL from 1993 in Dharamsala, “Emptiness is not nothingness. On one side, a thing is empty; on the other it arises dependently. Emptiness is not empty of existence; it is empty of independent existence. So it must depend on other things. It is important to make sure one has the correct understanding of emptiness. Those who understand emptiness correctly as meaning dependent arising see that if they misbehave, they will have to face the consequences. Thus they will refrain from acting in an unethical manner.”
In part 2 of this topic, I look at unquestioning obedience, removal of the right to criticise and respect for worldly law in relation to vajrayana and cults, then I provide a conclusion to the two posts.
Post by Tahlia Newland, editor and author.
Current and previous students of Rigpa wanting private support are welcome to join the What Now? Facebook group. Please contact us via the contact page and ask for an invite.
Ex-Rigpa students and their dharma friends who want to move on from the discussion of abuse in Rigpa can stay in touch through the Dharma Companions Facebook Group.
The What Now? Reference Material page has links to a wealth of articles in the topics related to abuse in Buddhist communities. For links to places to assist in healing from abuse see the sangha care resources page.
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JANUARY 31, 2018 AT 10:29 AM
This is really well written Tahlia. Thank you so much. Powerful reminders and, particularly for me today, it’s that quote from Dagyab Rinpoche which rings so true as a lapsed catholic! It’s funny but I’ve been around a lot of CEOs and senior executives in my professional work, who can sometimes seem narcissistic and throw their weight around. So I always had some sort of mental distance from SL when we would see him berate someone in public. Some of it just seemed so daft! Now it breaks my heart still that I didn’t check more as to what was really happening behind the scenes. I just somehow assumed that people could look after themselves. However seduction is like a slow drip and when someone has a lot of charisma and magnetism… Before you know where you are, you are caught in a spider’s web….
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Pete Cowell
JANUARY 31, 2018 AT 11:41 AM
Is it a cult? A semi-cult? Not really a cult at all?
In Tibetan Buddhism, it’s easy to cite a text or a lama to justify or contradict almost any point of view, there’s so much to choose from.
It’s even possible to do both by citing the same lama on different occasions : Science one day…..Hell realms the next……..use your critical intelligence to evaluate your lama today……..see him as the Buddha tomorrow…….something for everyone.
Instead of naively trusting what Vajrayana Buddhism says, why not just be pragmatic and look at the results of what it actually does ?
A thousand years of it’s total dominance in Tibet produced a primitive, brutal, feudal theocracy built on slavery and exploitation, where a religious elite used violence, superstition and fear, to wield absolute power over a servile population.
A country so backward impoverished and that even the ruthless British Empire wasn’t particularly interested in it.
And as this religion has spread throughout the West for the past 50 years, why haven’t we yet seen the slightest enthusiasm among it’s proponents for democracy and social equality ?
What we have seen is the rapid ascendancy of individuals like Sogyal and Trungpa, endorsed and supported by the entire Tibetan establishment from the top down, in their relentless drive to recreate the power, status, dominance and wealth of a religious elite, most of whom either hold the values of modern secular societies in barely disguised contempt, or at best are simply not interested in them.
So whether we think Vajrayana is a cult or not is much less important than asking what it actually does and whether it’s even capable of being of any use in our society or is it structurally unreformable, doomed to stay as it was in Tibet: a parasitic, elitist, and self-serving religion.
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Nan
JANUARY 31, 2018 AT 7:58 PM
Vajrayana was never meant to be McVajrayana. This became a problem for Tibet too for those of you who want to dig into the history. The institutionalization of Vajrayana in the west (I have no clue about China where it seems to be growing by leaps and bounds; but I am wondering what happens when wealthy Communists become Buddhists and when Buddhism becomes another totalitarian ideology) has many obvious and complex problems, precisely because of its proponents and institutions not being willing to deeply engage, *interface* with, or held to societal standards/structures consensually established as optimally functional in non-totalitarian contexts.
Has anyone ever seen the documentary One of Us? It’s about what happens within closed religious communities. Anything that erodes one’s critical faculties or rational development needs to be considered with care.
Would you say Vajrayana requires blind faith? If so, then what’s the difference between an evangelical Christian and a Vajrayanist? I believe it was in a DKR book that it was said (paraphrasing): Vajrayana is about believing impossible things, in that case what’s the big deal about the Virgin birth and the resurrection of Christ?
We need to look at the performative contradictions issuing from some of these writings and claims such as: believe impossible things (while dismissing others who do the exact same thing).
The longevity and stability of a religious tradition will depend on how it treats its underprivileged. For a chilling presentation of the culture which gave us bodhicitta teachings (via India), see the documentary Blindsight (2006), about a German activist who discovers the way ordinary Tibetans treat and interact with their disabled and underprivileged. It’s easy to identify with the greatest meta-perspective ever (the two bodhicittas) while not rolling up our sleeves and serving in real ways on the ground as if living beings actually matter, in spite (or because) of their ultimate status.
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Moonfire
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 1:00 AM At this stage in the discussion of topics raised by the revelations of abuse in Rigpa, the moderators (and some readers who have contacted us) feel that those continually commenting from an obvious anti-Tibetan Buddhism agenda are not contributing to the kind of positive dialogue around change that we would like to see here. We have clearly stated all along that this blog is for those interested in change not for those who want to demolish Sogyal Rinpoche, Rigpa or Tibetan Buddhism, therefore we request that those interested only in destruction of these people and institutions take their comments elsewhere.
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Rick New
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 3:47 AM
@ Moonfire
“we request that those interested only in destruction of these people and institutions take their comments elsewhere…”
Hi Moonfire,
Of course, you control the reins here, but excluding people with views you disagree with (that aren’t here to just be trolls) seems very dangerous for all of us.
Strongly disagreeing is one thing, but excluding or asking people to leave a public forum is a huge step, a step in history, the beginning of many problems much larger than we are facing here.
As M. Seres (who lived through the Nazi occupation in France wrote) “I beseech you, do not say “eliminates”, I consider exclusion as history and mankind’s worst action. No, let us not eliminate, on the contrary, let us include.”
I welcome and need ALL the voices here, to try and embrace the full range of sincere expression and would be deeply saddened to see anyone excluded that is sincerely expressing their views.
Please Call Me by My True Names
Do not say that I’ll depart tomorrow—
even today I am still arriving.
Look deeply: every second I am arriving
to be a bud on a Spring branch,
to be a tiny bird, with still-fragile wings,
learning to sing in my new nest,
to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower,
to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone.
I still arrive, in order to laugh and to cry,
to fear and to hope,
the rhythm of my heart is the birth and death
of all that are alive.
I am the mayfly metamorphosing
on the surface of the river,
and I am the bird which, when Spring comes,
arrives in time to eat the mayfly.
I am the frog swimming happily
in the clear water of a pond,
and I am the grass-snake
that silently feeds itself on the frog.
I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones,
my legs as thin as bamboo sticks.
And I am the arms merchant,
selling deadly weapons to Uganda.
I am the twelve-year-old girl,
refugee on a small boat,
who throws herself into the ocean
after being raped by a sea pirate.
And I am the pirate,
my heart not yet capable
of seeing and loving.
I am a member of the politburo,
with plenty of power in my hands.
And I am the man who has to pay his
“debt of blood” to my people
dying slowly in a forced labor camp.
My joy is like Spring, so warm
it makes flowers bloom all over the Earth.
My pain is like a river of tears,
so vast it fills the four oceans.
Please call me by my true names,
so I can hear all my cries and laughter at once,
so I can see that my joy and pain are one.
Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up
and so the door of my heart can be left open,
the door of compassion.
T.N.H.
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Michel DM
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 11:17 AM
@ Rick New
A good point and a lovely poem, i hope it won’t fall on deaf ears.
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Simona
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 2:58 PM
Moonfire, congratulations for these clear words. Where have you been all the time? I missed such a statement in previous blogposts when other tibetan teachers and even other commentators of this blog were offended. But I think it is not necessary at all to “ban” certain commentators as this appears to be onesided, arbitrary and precarious! Is there no nuance inbetween, no middle way, no mediation?
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Nan
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 1:59 AM
@Moonfire Agreed. I think the saddest thing is that people will walk away from scandals within traditions because of such painful associations, never having gotten past the fire-breathing dragon at the entry of the treasury. So sad. Where else will you find the exquisitely beautiful story of Asanga and Maitreya? The Advice to the People of Dingri? The many beautiful texts on Mind Training?
@Pete, the religions evolved over centuries as ordering principles and orienting frameworks, to provide structure, harmony, and social cohesion, since the absence of those invites unimaginable chaos and treachery.
Facile dismissals of vast swaths of human history, culture, creativity and experience cannot erase the beauty and truth provided by them thanks to the hard work of countless dedicated people striving to make things better for everyone. Have you never seen the Pietà or wept listening to the 9th Symphony? Have you never been to Notre Dame? The Pyramids? Gone to Assisi or Borobodur or the Ajanta caves? All of these inconceivable extraordinary places that blanket us with a sense of the Vast Sacred issue from religious ideas and the inspiration that guided individuals not yet talked out of the mysterious treasure of cultivated awareness.
But alas negativity bias makes us prone to remembering the bad and forgetting completely the good, the true, and the beautiful.
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Nan
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 5:05 AM @Rick beautiful. _()_ Thank you. I want to make clear that by Agreed re: Moonfire that my intention is not and has never to bash religions, institutions, teachers, or teachings, and that I am aware that is not the purpose of this blog, in case my posts were the offenders.
Liked by 2 people
Michel DM
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 3:31 PM
@ Nan
No need to worry Nan, it was aimed solely at me, and I’ve now also been blocked as a result. Pete
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Nan
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 4:13 PM
@Pete Actually Pete, not sure it was aimed solely at you. And for what it’s worth, Chandler’s book is replete with denied shadow, unquestioned givens, and serious distortions of the author’s own. It is yet another tract that completely misses the point of the universal call to do the inescapable work (for those serious about waking up). I empathize and know the need to walk away from religions and their corruptions, but remember that inside of you is an impulse to both transcendence and chaos, however masked, as vital as your breath which you cannot for long ignore without frames of reference to navigate it.
@Thalia, wow. Whatever little credibility this blog might have had is now gone. Poof! @Catlover you get your way. I am now kicking myself off of this blog so as to spare cementing foolishness and willful blindness.
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Michel DM
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 5:46 PM @ Nan
A wise decision, I’ve enjoyed your thoughtful comments. I’ve really had my fill of transcendance and chaos, but I know what you mean. Good luck. Pete
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Catlover
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 8:44 PM
@Nan,
What do you mean by, “Catlover, you get your way?” Did I ask you to leave the blog? I just said we should all try to stick to the subject more without getting lost in debates about philosophy that lead nowhere. That even includes myself, since I sometimes get lost in these debates too. I’m guilty as charged. I am all for discussing philosophy sometimes, but OVERTHINKING can just go around in circles and it’s exhausting. If you’re gonna go off in a huff, that’s your decision.
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Stefanie Gast
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 11:32 AM
@ moonfire
The way we talk to others is a reflection of how we talk to ourselves. If we tend to ignore or exclude external voices, opinions, feelings, we probably tend to suppress or deny them within our own mind. What I deny will probably come after me and bite me in the back later. So why not face it here and now, there might be a chance to learn and get over it.
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Adamo
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 12:21 PM
“Is Vajrayana Buddhism a Cult Religion? ”
I still consider Vajrayana as a valid path, as long as its not understood as religion but as a mean to realize the Buddhas teachings. Even for westerners.
But not as toy for people like me that follows uncritical an tibetan who is trapped by his own delusions. And so on.
It seems to be a method for ripe adults who can take care for themselves. On both sides of the party.
What is really positive with the “Rigpa-Soggy” case is what we all can learn from it. Tremendous.
I mean even tibetans can learn a lot from it.
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Michel DM
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 1:11 PM
@Tahlia/Moonfire
Firstly Tahlia, I have to thank you for running this blog, because it’s been useful for reasons I don’t think I need to elaborate. I also have to say that you deserve some credit for having resisted the temptation to block my comments up until now, I do understand how difficult that’s been for you.
The most significant thing is that I’m always polite and I never criticize anyone personally, I only take issue with their beliefs.
This is a completely normal and accepted practice in any forum run by people who are mature enough to understand how essential this is in a democratic society. Silencing dissent is the first step on a very dark road and I think that’s what Rick New is trying to explain by his post and the beautiful poem he included.
I wonder how this fits in with your much stated aim to compassionately help all victims inclusively. . Remarkably, in the present context, it seems you want me to be quiet just because my views threaten your beliefs.
And it’s not convincing to justify that with the bizarre inference that discussion of the links between Sogyal’s abuse and the wider context of Tibetan Buddhism is not something we can discuss.
Since you don’t seem to be able to produce any convincing counter-arguments, the only option that appeals to you is to make a rather sanctimonious request for me to take my comments “elsewhere”….. and then not give me the choice by blocking them anyway, as you’ve just done. That way it can appear that I’ve accepted your authority. ( which I’m afraid I don’t.)
When you asked in a private email for permission to use my comments in written form, I gave it without hesitation, but that was before you understood that I think reform of Vajrayana, Rigpa and any rehabilitation of Sogyal is a naïve and dangerous fantasy.
You asked my wife to post far more intimate details of her personal experience with Sogyal on your What now? ‘Secret’ facebook page, and when she declined, you blocked her immediately using the same pretext. I hear you’ve purged well over 100 other people too. Your position seems to shift slightly from week to week, to the extent that it’s rather difficult to be sure what it really is.
You talk a lot about reconciliation and healing but it looks like that’s mainly a coded way of saying you’d like to preserve some version of the status quo; probably you’re hoping for the rehabilitation of Sogyal and the reform of Rigpa….. and of course my comments don’t fit into that scheme at all.
Perhaps you’re hoping to mine all this for a book or use it to your own advantage in some way, but you have no idea how potentially dangerous that is.
Many of us warned about Sogyal a long time ago and partly because of people who had the same ambivalence as you have now, our warnings were ignored and he was free to go on sexually abusing, beating and exploiting with impunity.
Those 20 plus years of added damage have been considerable, and it was precisely the same short-sighted self-interest and lack of moral and intellectual clarity that you exhibit now that made it possible then and will allow it to happen again in some other form in future.
Even then, I’m sure this “positive dialogue around change” as you call it, will be still be going on in much the same way as it is now, and that impotent “dialogue” will still be a soothing anodyne for people who like to just talk about how terrible abuse in the Vajrayana is, without actually doing anything to prevent it happening again.
Anyway, on a positive note, I’m glad to say that the amount of testimony being received by UNADFI is now quite significant and more is needed.
Best wishes and thanks to everyone who has sent their testimony.
Pete
Further fun reading :
‘Enthralled’ by Christine Chandler
“Qu’ont-ils fait du bouddhisme?” by Marion Dapsance. (Currently in French only)
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Adamo
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 1:48 PM
“What now? ‘Secret’” Is this a site beneath the one here ?
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Adamo
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 9:14 AM
Just once more again and for the last time: Is there another “whatnow secret” blog ?
Why I want to know ? It reminds me of my time within Rigpa with so many “secret” little clubs, underclubs, special mandalas and whatsoever. People telling other people: “You dont have to know it” and so on.
I “disliked” it a little bit, and considered it sometimes ridiculous.
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Simona
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 9:25 AM
Hi there,
I wonder why the admins or initiators are not answering themselves, but it’s not the first time that they turn into dead-man-mode.
About another “what new” blog I have no information, I only read some time ago on this website that there exists a “secret” facebook group. Which people were invited to apply for via moderators and then being approved to enter.
The information (facebook/email) was somewhere on this website.
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Stefanie Gast
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 2:49 PM
That’s the opposite of what I would call transparency and an open-minded approach. Very sad.
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Rick New
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 4:51 PM
@ Moonfire
It seems to me all the posters here appreciate your efforts and establishing a blog where we can all talk about these issues. I certainly do. Thank you!
Perhaps if this blog was entitled: “How can we reform Tibetan Buddhism and Rigpa” instead of “What Now?” many folks would have self-excluded from the beginning.
But when an open ended question like “What Now?” is asked and when the blog “encourage(s) deep reflection in students as they process the allegations of abuse in Rigpa and what it means for them.” then perhaps you could be open to what that deep reflection brings however difficult that might be (for all of us.)
Many here have obviously been deeply reflecting for decades and if folks come to different conclusions that you, isn’t that what you are encouraging? Isn’t that “success” for this blog’s intentions?
Limiting the range of discussion is what those in charge of the Rigpa Organization have done. Isn’t the connection between that approach and the creation of an environment for abuse to occur obvious at this point?
Liked by 1 person
Marge
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 8:53 PM
I and many others believe that this blog continues to be the most invaluable source of information for all who have been directly or indirectly harmed by Sogyal and Rigpa.
Moreover, we believe that this blog has maintained its credibility, now that its moderators have asked the person to refrain from continually posting their anti-Tibetan Buddhism propaganda, as such propaganda is based solely on their prejudices, and gross level of misunderstanding.
Sogyal and Rigpa do not represent the face of Tibetan Buddhism, or its profound lineages, masters, and practices.
Thank you so very much to this blog’s professional and dedicated team for keeping everything on track.
Marge
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Simona
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 10:03 PM
“for keeping everything on track” ?
What I have noticed here on the part of moderators/moonfire/Tahlia was persistent silence most of the time.
There have been some cases of verbal abuse, for example, by some other persons than the one who is meant to be scapegoated now. It is surely by coincidence, that these verbal slips (in previous blogposts) came mostly from female avatars and I do not know why they have not been criticised by the moderators.
The sudden strong reaction from moderators now looks a bit arbitrary and harsh to me and I definitely do not think that it is professional or constructive or fair.
I think that tibetan buddhism does not have to defend itself and it does not have to be protected against “propaganda”, because I think the tradition and philosophy is solid and strong enough to tolerate criticism or enimies. (Of course people should feel free do defend or protect it anyway).
It is another thing to protect participants of this blogpost, in case that they feel offended. That’s what moderators are for, at least I thought they were.
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Simona
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 10:10 PM “this blog’s professional and dedicated team for keeping everything on track” ? I do not see this, but probably it is only me.
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Marge
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 11:03 PM
@Simona
Yes, I unequivocally believe that the moderators are keeping everything on track. In other words, they are moderating the comments in accordance with the initial aims and objectives of this blog.
Unfortunately, there has been one person in particular who has regularly posted comments that often contains anti-Tibetan Buddhism propaganda, that is solely based upon this person’s prejudices and gross level of misunderstanding. Just scroll back through the weeks, and you can see it for yourself.
I personally will have no further dialogue with this particular person via this blog, as not only does he seem to be on a personal crusade to bring down Tibetan Buddhism, but his extreme level of tenacity and blind cynicism prevents him from understanding that Sogyal and Rigpa’s destructive behaviour do not represent the face of Tibetan Buddhism, or its profound lineages, masters, and practices.
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Simona
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 9:07 AM
Thanks Marge. I have no problem with people who decide to just “have no fürther dialogue with this particular person” who represents or presents point of views that one completely disagrees with. Although it is not the most mature way to deal with different opinions.
But the decisions or the moderation of this blog seem to be very arbitrary and insecure, because some weeks ago some person was asked to “get out of the way – or get with the programme”, because he asked what was the motivation behind calling some tibetan lama bad names.
So for the initiators of this blog this opinion “get with the programme – or get out of the way” seemed to be alright and served the purpose of this blog. (?)
Obviously it depends which person is insulted or verbally abused in order to set some moral standards (for the mods in this blog).
But I see it this way: either I have moral standards or I don’t. It does not work if I use some rules in some cases and in other cases I don’t. At least in my humble opinion.
To now – again – identify a scapegoat to blame and to exclude is a sign of disorientation, loss of human values, lack of communication, lack of conflict solving. Argueing is not a problem, it would only be a problem if no rules are applied or arbitrary onesided rules are applied.
I am with Nan here, who said that this blog lost its’ credibility and that it won’t be solved by excluding people. That’s my point here, I hope I could make it more clear now.
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Marge
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 10:07 AM
@Simona
Like I said, if you scroll back over the weeks you will see the many comments that one particular person has left, which on occasions has absolutely dominated the threads with anti-Tibetan Buddhism propaganda.
Of course, everybody has a right to their own opinion, but the sheer unrelenting amount of this person’s propaganda serves no purpose other than to clog up these comment threads, thus preventing any fruitful dialogue that others would like.
Simona, you said, “I have no problem with people who decide to just have no further dialogue with this particular person who represents or presents point of views that one completely disagrees with. Although it is not the most mature way to deal with different opinions.“
Well, all that I can say is that I thoroughly agree with you. In fact I have never walked away from communication with anybody else before. I had attempted on a several occasions to engage in dialogue with him, and if you scroll back over the recent weeks, you will clearly see why I have come to this decision. Any dialogue with him is futile.
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Simona
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 2:24 PM
Okay, Marge, thanks for your reply. I think I can understand where you are coming from and that you now think that a dialogue with Pete seems to be futile for you. Again, I see no problem at all with that decision of yours.
The other thing is the statement of moderators, as authority figures able to impose rules here (legitimate, as they operate the blog) who kind of impose a ban on a person rather than making clear their pro-TB position without excluding people with a different opinion.
These two positions are different. With the first one I can agree, with the second one I disagree for various reasons that I will surely define, if the mods should be interested in my opinion about that. Best, Simona.
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Michel DM
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 9:26 PM @ Marge…….and many others
“Sogyal and Rigpa do not represent the face of Tibetan Buddhism, or its profound lineages, masters, and practices.”
Really? And so they all supported and endorsed him unconditionally for thirty years because…….?
(Or is that just “propaganda” and a “gross level of misunderstanding” ?)
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Catlover
FEBRUARY 1, 2018 AT 9:27 PM @Rick,
You’re right that “What Now?” is really an open question, and it can mean so many things to different people.
Liked by 1 person
Michel DM
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 12:44 PM
@Marge
You’ve now posted three comments in succession about what a terrible person I am, with what you call my relentless “anti-Tibetan Buddhist propaganda“and how dialogue with me is “futile” so I don’t expect a reply this admittedly rhetorical question:
Do you remember who posted this?
“If Rigpa’s visiting Tibetan teachers remain silent while they teach at Rigpa, they should know that they are implicitly endorsing Sogyal, as it is widely known that Rigpa is synonymous with Sogyal’s activities.”………
……..”That is why, if Rigpa’s visiting Tibetan teachers have actually heard about the allegations against Sogyal, and they continue to remain silent while they teach at any Rigpa centre or event, they must understand that many Westerners will naturally presume that their presence at Rigpa is an implicit endorsement of Sogyal,”……..
I’ll give you a clue……it wasn’t me.
Pete
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Simona
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 2:56 PM
I know, I am not Marge! But I think this is a good opportunity for everyone to reflect upon why some dialogues are so exhausting and even seem to be so frustrating that people refuse to continue, because none of the parties feels heard or understood. Maybe we could read the book that Rick New just recommended in “Trust, Communication and an Olive Branch” (?). Or try to find some commonalities in the content of the many comments, as you have already mentioned in your last comment, which is great, by the way, because you recognised that you find some arguments in Marge’s comments which are not too far from your own thoughts, obviously. That’s not always easy to accept, that the counterpart, the one we seek to convince with rhetorical arts, with intelligent and logic arguments, the one that we want to prove that we are right – and then find out, that the other person already understood what we mean, but still has a different approach or draws a different conclusion. Some work for us to do, but if we don’t do it, nobody else will. As Blaise Pascal once put it: “All of humanity’s problems stem from man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” He was supposed to have said that with a grain of humour.
Liked by 1 person
call a therapist
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 8:37 PM
Please guys, get some help. Do something for yourselves. Om Ah Hum.
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Gaté
FEBRUARY 2, 2018 AT 9:13 PM
@call a therapist I agree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MBYr7ULLUo
Liked by 1 person
beidawei
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 7:09 AM
Michael DM: “…I think reform of Vajrayana, Rigpa and any rehabilitation of Sogyal is a naïve and dangerous fantasy.”
I agree with all this, with the possible exception of the “dangerous” part. After all, how could reforms possibly come about? They can’t be imposed from the top down, because Tibetan Buddhism is so decentralized. They can’t come from the grassroots, because rank-and-file participants (i.e., the customers) don’t insist on reforms. (Some do leave, but many more stay.)
From a Marxist point of view, many of you are suffering from, and perpetuating, “false consciousness.” That is, you have internalized traditional rhetoric to the effect that certain religious specialists (“lamas”) deserve extraordinary deference, a belief which is particularly convenient to those lamas.
Imagine, if you will,a kind of Vajrayana Reformation whose articles included such items as the denial that reincarnations can or should be identified; insistence on democracy within all Buddhist organizations, and the equality of all participants; and acceptance of modern scholarship as it pertains to Buddhist history. The lamas would fight this tooth and claw–not because they’re fundamentally opposed to progressive causes, but because this would challenge their political authority. After all, what would Lamaism be without its lamas? Would we care what they think, if not for who they are?
This is why I say that Tibetan Buddhism will never change. All the Sogyals, Dzongsars, and Trungpas of the world are only extreme examples of a more thoroughgoing corruption that infects even the Dalai Lama, as well-intentioned as he may be.
Liked by 1 person
Rick New
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 1:29 PM
@ beidawei
> After all, how could reforms possibly come about?
It seems to me there are many possibilities of change taking place, but they require that we recognize when we give up our power. The capacity for change is in our collective potential for coherence, our ability to release our stances.
“We often find that we cannot easily give up the tendency to hold rigidly to patterns of thought built up over a long time. We are then caught up in what may be called absolute necessity. This kind of thought leaves no room at all intellectually for any other possibility, while emotionally and physically, it means we take a stance in our feelings, in our bodies, and indeed, in our whole culture, of holding back or resisting. This stance implies that under no circumstances whatsoever can we allow ourselves to give up certain things or change them.” — David Bohm
Liked by 1 person
Michel DM
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 2:35 PM
@ Beidawei
It’s refreshing to hear someone with an understanding that religion has a political dimension.
I used to think that Marx was exaggerating when he said that religion was the opiate of the masses, but having had experience of opium and then religion, I think he wasn’t far off the mark. Except that nobody expects opiates to solve their problems permanently. The whole quote is more nuanced and sympathetic, and Marx criticizes the oppression that drives people to religion, where they get fooled into accepting a false promise of future happiness that diverts them from understanding their oppression and rebelling against it.
It maybe why the idea of reforming Tibetan Buddhism is so popular……it’s more of a religious belief than a practical scheme, it’s another false hope for happiness in some distant future.
It’s significant that so far, no-one has made any realistic suggestions about how it could actually be done.
In reality, it’s hopeless, given, as you point out, that those in authority will never relinquish their power voluntarily, and only ever pretend to cooperate with anyone seeking to limit that power, which is exactly what Rigpa is currently doing,
But it might take a bit longer for that to become fully apparent to people whose optimism, hope and faith still outweighs their experience and knowledge of history.
Pete
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Rick New
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 2:50 PM
@ Michel DM
> It’s significant that so far, no-one has made any realistic suggestions about how it could actually be done.
There’s been a spectrum of possibilities laid out, from taking over control of the business side (as suggested by the Dalai lama) staying within a Mahayana approach, except perhaps for those who want to take on the risk (https://tricycle.org/magazine/no-right-no-wrong/) coming together (on an ordinary level similar to unions), etc., etc. There are an infinite number of creative ways forward.
Of course, of one has come to the conclusion it is impossible, then by definition no approach will seem realistic.
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Michel DM
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 4:13 PM
Hi Rick,
I read the interview with Pema Chodron in Tricycle, I think anyone who would worship someone as dysfunctional as Trungpa and justify his abuse has been thoroughly brain-washed, but her talent for revisionist sophistry is certainly impressive…….. “My undying devotion to Trungpa Rinpoche comes from his teaching me in every way he could that you can never make things right or wrong.”
Sounds familiar…..
That idea is so obviously nonsense in so many ways that it’s close to madness, sheer intellectual and moral brain fog. I really hope it doesn’t catch on with doctors, nurses, engineers, politicians, drivers, pilots, teachers, parents……anyone at all in fact……you get the idea.
Where and when was this ‘spectrum of possibilities’ laid out exactly? I must have missed it, but I’d be interested to hear more. Coming up with theoretical plans is not impossible, but given the power, money and status involved, putting it into practice will be. Can you cite one historical example of an elite voluntarily giving up power?
Anyway, a few years down the road we’ll see whether anything changes.
Pete
Liked by 1 person
Rick New
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 4:22 PM
@ Michel DM
> anyone who would worship someone as dysfunctional as Trungpa and justify his abuse has been thoroughly brain-washed,
Totally agree!
Why do you think Pema Chodron worships Trungpa? Do you equate devotion with worship?
Is TNH (in his poem) worshipping the pirate that raped the little girl? No, but the poem spills over with infinite devotion.
>Where and when was this ‘spectrum of possibilities’ laid out exactly? I must have missed it, but I’d be interested to hear more.
Let’s talk!
> Anyway, a few years down the road we’ll see whether anything changes.
This seems up to us.
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Rick New
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 4:32 PM
“I don’t think that the military force can remove the wrong perceptions; in fact they can strengthen these wrong perceptions. The only way to remove wrong perceptions is to establish a dialogue. The two instruments that you need to use to restore communication are deep listening and loving speech.”
TNH
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Michel DM
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 4:50 PM
Rick, could you explain the difference between worship and devotion please?
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Rick New
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 7:07 PM
@ Michel DM
> Rick, could you explain the difference between worship and devotion please?
The differences are vast.
Worship is as Trungpa writes: “Taking refuge in a mother or father-principle is truly self-defeating; the refuge-seeker has no real basic strength at all, no true inspiration. He is constantly busy assessing greater and smaller powers.”
“If we are small, then someone greater can crush us. We seek refuge because we cannot afford to be small and without protection. We tend to be apologetic: “I am such a small thing, but I acknowledge your great quality. I would like to worship you and join your greatness, so will you please protect me?”
And goes on to describe the final stage of devotion, of relating to the teacher: “it is like passing a rock in the road. You do not even pay attention to it; you just pass by and walk away.”
Devotion is what you are expressing when you want to eliminate religion, it is the powerful energy that appears from seeing through illusions and brainwashing.
Devotion includes your cynicism, your connection to those still brainwashed.
Devotion includes your wish that others not go through suffering and your efforts toward justice.
Devotion is the song of TNH after having faced years of war and violence.
“Please call me by my true names, so I can hear all my cries and laughs at once, so I can see that my joy and pain are one.”
Finally, it is coming to terms with a non-divided world, not conceptually, but as a way of taking responsibility and expressing our response-ability.
“So you had better not step onto the spiritual path unless you must. Once you have stepped foot on the path, you have really done it, you cannot step back. There is no way of escaping.” CT
There isn’t any way to leave our past is there? Where would we go?
It seems your efforts are fueled by an energy, that energy is devotion, a desire to help, it need not be directed toward something or someone.
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Rick New
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 3:07 PM
“The concern here is obviously one of not wanting to see students get hurt. Once you become a teacher—just as if you become a monk or a nun—you can’t blindly keep doing what you always did. You have to be more mindful about how your behavior affects others. So that’s one side of it.
And I’m glad to see this subject discussed. It’s important for students to see that dharma teachers have tempers or aggression or passion. Buddhism isn’t about seeing a world all cleaned up or thinking that the world can be all cleaned up.
The other side is that it brings up peoples’ moralism, their conventional-mindedness. It concerns me that guidelines like these may become like some government edict or law of the land. My whole training in Buddhism has been that there is no way to tie up all the loose ends. And that comes from my teachers and from the teachings. You’re never going to erase the groundlessness.
You’re never going to have a neat, sweet little picture with no messiness, no matter how many rules you make. It’s important to have all the different positions expressed, from the left to the right, from the most liberal to the most uptight. ”
Pema Chödrön
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Not so hopeful anymore
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 3:46 PM
My guess is that you were banned ( which clearly hasn’t happened because you’re posting as much or more than ever) because of your single minded arrogance that you’ve got it all figured out and anyone who disagrees is wrong.
Basically end of dialogue, a polite way of saying shut up you’re wrong, over and over and over again.
THAT’S JUST PLAIN RUDE in any language.
I’m sorry that you’re unable to see how all traditions are always changing and how some lamas, like Mingyur Rinpoche have already shown that true modernization is not only possible but of immense benefit to all.
I wonder, will it be possible for you to accept this or will you try to figure out how to discredit and disparage him too? 😊
FYI, Tergar teachers are westerners and fully empowered to teach. MR lives very simply, he almost died when he took off and tried to do a three year retreat.
You might have seen this if you weren’t blinded by your single minded obsession. Sure, culturally they are in a very awkward, and protracted transition. Sitting back and throwing stones doesn’t help at all.
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Rick New
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 4:08 PM
@ Not so hopeful anymore
We need all our voices, but somehow, we also need a way to not cancel one another out, a way to step out into the wider space that includes the full range of our capacity for good and destruction. This includes the teachers and ourselves.
This seems to me what Thich Nhat Hanh is saying in his poem, from the wider view a compassion for OUR situation emerges, not someone else’s.
Liked by 1 person
notsohopeful
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 4:42 PM
@ Rick New
I agree we need all voices, but that requires mutual respect, active listening, not constant blanket statements saying the same thing over and over again, dismissing other people’s experience and sensibilities as ignorant over and over again.
All community groups that I’ve been in start with start with community agreements, in this blog the agreements were stipulated by the moderator who started and maintains the blog. People who consistently ignore the community agreements need to take a break.
I believe that one of the points of this blog was to encourage dialogue between people who are still fully invested in rigpa, those who were struggling, and those who have left, so that they may benefit from each other’s experience and wisdom. That requires everyone to own what they say as me/mine/I, it’s not a platform to tell everyone that what they think and believe is wrong. Maybe that’s too subtle a point for some, a feather is the most useful tool but some people keep slinging a sledge hammer. Some of the people who need to see this open reflection the most feel brutalized by the sledge hammer approach.
It’s Tahlia’s blog, if people don’t want to abide by the community agreements that she set then I’m sure they can find lots of other places to rant and rave and condemn an entire belief system out of hand, they are clearly not interested in the discussion going on in this blog so why persist?
I am not saying that they should refrain from stating what they believe, but as you know the way in which we say things matters, respect for others opinions is integral to dialogue.
The experts mind, an easy trap to fall into.
Liked by 1 person
Rick New
FEBRUARY 4, 2018 AT 2:07 AM
@ notsohopeful
“I am not saying that they should refrain from stating what they believe, but as you know the way in which we say things matters, respect for others opinions is integral to dialogue.”
Yes, it sure helps a lot when we make that effort. We are a long way from dialogue.
Without it, I don’t see how the reform this blog endeavours to accomplish can take place. Do you?
I think Pete feels dialogue isn’t going to help much and that the bottom line of the court system is all we have. It’s what the Rigpa Organization will listen too. Despite my feeling that this won’t produce much lasting change (especially in this case) I can certainly understand his point of view and single minded frustration.
Still, I’m also discouraged by his lack of deeper dialogue, as that is part of the approach that got us here too. Change can take place on many edges.
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Michel DM
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 4:46 PM
@ Not so hopeful
Look I’m really sorry I’ve upset you so much that you’re calling me names and shouting at me in capitals again.
Anyway, yes, whatever you say……I’m sure Mingyur Rinpoche is a true modernizer, which is obviously why, despite being comfortably off and famous, he spent a whole three years of his valuable time pretending to be a homeless destitute person instead of doing something pointless like studying to become a doctor. And I’m sure he really did do it……and it wasn’t to boost his street cred with westerners either.
He almost died too…..wow, I bet all those other real destitute people who didn’t have a large monastery and lots of servants to go back to whenever they wanted to, thought he was so brave and cool. And those fantastic spiritual experiences he talked so modestly about on youtube….amazing.
Yes, a completely modern and entirely sane, meaningful thing to do.
And you’re absolutely right, all Tibetan lamas are in an awkward cultural transition, and it certainly is protracted.
You can’t expect them to grasp difficult modern concepts like rational thought, equality, social justice, not implicitly endorsing abusers and so on……after all they’ve only had a few decades and it’s never good to rush these things.
I hope that helps.
Pete.
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notsohopeful
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 7:33 PM
Not angry at all.
You’re apparent commitment to shut out anything that doesn’t fit your world view is actually quite sad…basically modeling your own single minded belief system that is beyond reproach. Somewhat ironic in a way, you seem fixed on the idea that your way of seeing the world is better then theirs, full stop.
It’s no wonder you don’t think it’s possible for TB to adapt, we can only imagine what we ourselves can aspire to.
Liked by 1 person
bintang
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 11:31 AM
the articles here are not bad. skimming some the comments it appears like some dynamics and gravitation of a giant black whole. who would pour their energy into a dark black whole once they got a clue.
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el condor pasa
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 2:21 PM
@ bintang
wow, yes, but it’s also a nice subtle intense smell, something between lynch mob atmosphere and a sadistic teacher in a classroom, operating with reward and punishment. quite exciting, can’t wait to see who is next 😀
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Rose
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 12:42 PM
On another note, I just wanted to thank those who have contributed such thought provoking, eloquent articles which have, over the life of the blog, covered so many relevant topics.
Also thanks to those who have contributed to the comments. There has been much engaging and lively conversation, useful information, poignant stories and genuine attempts at connecting and benefiting one another.
From what I have read here, no matter how exactly it is expressed, it does appear that most of us wish to be free from suffering and to genuinely help others be free from theirs.
The diversity of views has been of benefit to me and perhaps others. I hope that no voices will be permanently silenced and that positive outcomes will arise for all who have visited here.
Om Shanti
Liked by 3 people
Gaté
FEBRUARY 3, 2018 AT 6:46 PM
Please watch the Larry Nassar Impact statements on Youtube. Not unrelated. Can someone please explain to me about the Vajrayana phenomenology which at some point in practice requires a consort (preferably around 12 years old with particular proportions)? When unknowing people take Vajrayana vows they have to swear to accept and keep the tantric vows. How does this core feature of the “quickest path to Buddhahood” fit adaptively into our society, where the effects of sexual abuse, however justified or framed, are scientifically documented as contributing to all manner of psychological illness including schizophrenia? I remember a woman in her 30s coming to the center I served (not Rigpa); she was visibly disturbed and extremely anxious and shared that she had been seduced by a Tibetan Lama. She was quickly shuttled away and dismissed as crazy. I so regret not having had the tools or presence of mind to listen to her and support her, it was too threatening to my noobie faith. I am very frustrated that this issue isn’t being confronted head on and that asking these questions is disallowed or discouraged for the most part.
