Tertön

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Kris
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Tertön

Post by Kris »

There is a saying, that siddhas have siddha gurus.
Is this true for Tertons, do they usually have a guru who was a terton?
Who can become terton?
And now for the grand question.
How to become terton? :o :stirthepot:
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
Malcolm
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Re: Tertön

Post by Malcolm »

RikudouSennin wrote:There is a saying, that siddhas have siddha gurus.
Is this true for Tertons, do they usually have a guru who was a terton?
Who can become terton?
And now for the grand question.
How to become terton? :o :stirthepot:
1) Yes, generally tertons learn how to be tertons from other tertons, but not always.

2) Anyone who has A) been blessed by Guru Rinpoche b) is an advanced Dzogchen practitioner.

3) Refer to 2.
pemachophel
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Re: Tertön

Post by pemachophel »

We were recently with a Terton from Kham in the PRC. (His students have asked that His name not be mentioned on the Internet.) During the teachings He gave, He recounted His several different lineages, such as Longchen Nyinthig. Among these lineages was His "terton lineage." This went from Nyagla Pema Dudul to 1-2 names I forget to Nyagla Changchub Dorje (ChNNR's Root Guru) to the late Terton Odsal Dorje. This was the first time I had heard of "terton lineages."
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
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Boomerang
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Re: Tertön

Post by Boomerang »

Malcolm wrote:
RikudouSennin wrote:There is a saying, that siddhas have siddha gurus.
Is this true for Tertons, do they usually have a guru who was a terton?
Who can become terton?
And now for the grand question.
How to become terton? :o :stirthepot:
1) Yes, generally tertons learn how to be tertons from other tertons, but not always.

2) Anyone who has A) been blessed by Guru Rinpoche b) is an advanced Dzogchen practitioner.

3) Refer to 2.
How advanced do you have to be?
Malcolm
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Re: Tertön

Post by Malcolm »

Boomerang wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
RikudouSennin wrote:There is a saying, that siddhas have siddha gurus.
Is this true for Tertons, do they usually have a guru who was a terton?
Who can become terton?
And now for the grand question.
How to become terton? :o :stirthepot:
1) Yes, generally tertons learn how to be tertons from other tertons, but not always.

2) Anyone who has A) been blessed by Guru Rinpoche b) is an advanced Dzogchen practitioner.

3) Refer to 2.
How advanced do you have to be?
You have to have reached the third so called "vision."

The requirement for pure visions are not so stringent.
Kris
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Re: Tertön

Post by Kris »

Pardon my ignorance. What is the difference between pure vision and a terma?
If I understood Alan Wallaces introduction correctly Dudjom Lingpas 5 Dzogchen texts (The Sharp Vajra of Conscious Awareness Tantra,
The Foolish Dharma of an Idiot Clothed in Mud and Feathers , The Enlightened View of Samantabhadra, Buddhahood Without Meditation, The Vajra Essence ) are from pure visions.
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
Malcolm
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Re: Tertön

Post by Malcolm »

RikudouSennin wrote:Pardon my ignorance. What is the difference between pure vision and a terma?
If I understood Alan Wallaces introduction correctly Dudjom Lingpas 5 Dzogchen texts (The Sharp Vajra of Conscious Awareness Tantra,
The Foolish Dharma of an Idiot Clothed in Mud and Feathers , The Enlightened View of Samantabhadra, Buddhahood Without Meditation, The Vajra Essence ) are from pure visions.
Right, which means they are a product of Dudjom Lingpa's experiential realization, rather than a text predicted by Guru Padmasambhava and concealed by him or one of the 25 disciples.
Kris
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Re: Tertön

Post by Kris »

Malcolm wrote:
RikudouSennin wrote:Pardon my ignorance. What is the difference between pure vision and a terma?
If I understood Alan Wallaces introduction correctly Dudjom Lingpas 5 Dzogchen texts (The Sharp Vajra of Conscious Awareness Tantra,
The Foolish Dharma of an Idiot Clothed in Mud and Feathers , The Enlightened View of Samantabhadra, Buddhahood Without Meditation, The Vajra Essence ) are from pure visions.
Right, which means they are a product of Dudjom Lingpa's experiential realization, rather than a text predicted by Guru Padmasambhava and concealed by him or one of the 25 disciples.
Ah, I see. Thank you.
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
BuddhaFollower
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Re: Tertön

Post by BuddhaFollower »

Malcolm wrote:The requirement for pure visions are not so stringent.
What do you consider this as?

Jigme Lingpa fell asleep while contemplating Guru Rinpoche very strongly.

In the ensuing dream, he receives the Longchen Nyingthig:

https://books.google.com/books?id=lmqSo ... %2C&f=true

https://books.google.com/books?id=qMUh9 ... p.&f=false



P.S. By the way, it is a misunderstanding that Jigme Linpga receives the Longchen Nyingthig from his later visions of Longchenpa.

On pages 169-171, Gyatso says:

"Jigme Lingpa's visionary meetings with this revered master are sometimes taken as the source of the Longchen Nyingtig, especially since the "Longchen" in the title is also a part of this teacher's name. However it seems that the term there has the literal meaning of "great expanse" rather than referring to the person called Longchenpa. As is clear in the secret autobiographies, Jigme Lingpa understands the Longchen Nyingtig to have been revealed to him in his vision of Bodhnath and to have been formulated by Padmasambhava."
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Tertön

Post by dzogchungpa »

RikudouSennin wrote:How to become terton?
I think Naropa has a degree program for that now.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Tertön

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote:
RikudouSennin wrote:How to become terton?
I think Naropa has a degree program for that now.
A weekend certificate course, so I hear.
pael
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Re: Tertön

Post by pael »

Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
Kris
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Re: Tertön

Post by Kris »

Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
RikudouSennin wrote:How to become terton?
I think Naropa has a degree program for that now.
A weekend certificate course, so I hear.
oh nice :twothumbsup: I'm looking forward to the online course as well... :tongue:
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
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Grigoris
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Re: Tertön

Post by Grigoris »

RikudouSennin wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote: I think Naropa has a degree program for that now.
A weekend certificate course, so I hear.
oh nice :twothumbsup: I'm looking forward to the online course as well... :tongue:
Available only as an online recording or as a DVD.
Last edited by Grigoris on Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Malcolm
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Re: Tertön

Post by Malcolm »

pael wrote:Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
Not just anyone, pael. Only people who are one the bodhisattva stages who also have the correct dependent origination accumulate through past lives.
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Grigoris
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Re: Tertön

Post by Grigoris »

Malcolm wrote:
pael wrote:Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
Not just anyone, pael. Only people who are one the bodhisattva stages who also have the correct dependent origination accumulate through past lives.
Anyone who makes the correct effort.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
DGA
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Re: Tertön

Post by DGA »

Hm.
Malcolm wrote:
pael wrote:Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
Not just anyone, pael. Only people who are one the bodhisattva stages who also have the correct dependent origination accumulate through past lives.
or
Grigoris wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
pael wrote:Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
Not just anyone, pael. Only people who are one the bodhisattva stages who also have the correct dependent origination accumulate through past lives.
Anyone who makes the correct effort.
?
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Grigoris
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Re: Tertön

Post by Grigoris »

Basically we are saying the same thing. What Malcolm is outlining is the correct effort I am referring to.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
DGA
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Re: Tertön

Post by DGA »

Grigoris wrote:Basically we are saying the same thing. What Malcolm is outlining is the correct effort I am referring to.
I'm not so sure. You're saying that with the right kind of effort, anyone could become a terton. (unless you are saying something else, in which case please correct me).

Malcolm is saying that the right kind of effort for someone today would have to involve getting in a time machine to create the correct causal relations to Guru Rinpoche in a past life. (unless I understand Malcolm incorrectly, &c).
Malcolm
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Re: Tertön

Post by Malcolm »

DGA wrote:
Grigoris wrote:Basically we are saying the same thing. What Malcolm is outlining is the correct effort I am referring to.
I'm not so sure. You're saying that with the right kind of effort, anyone could become a terton. (unless you are saying something else, in which case please correct me).

Malcolm is saying that the right kind of effort for someone today would have to involve getting in a time machine to create the correct causal relations to Guru Rinpoche in a past life. (unless I understand Malcolm incorrectly, &c).
What I was saying is that in order to be terton one must be a reincarnation of one of the twenty five disciples.

Of course, this a very specific Tibetan socio-historical phenomena. Becoming realized person is the basic qualification for revealing any sort of new teaching of the Buddhas into the world.
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