Tertön
Tertön
There is a saying, that siddhas have siddha gurus.
Is this true for Tertons, do they usually have a guru who was a terton?
Who can become terton?
And now for the grand question.
How to become terton?
Is this true for Tertons, do they usually have a guru who was a terton?
Who can become terton?
And now for the grand question.
How to become terton?
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
Re: Tertön
1) Yes, generally tertons learn how to be tertons from other tertons, but not always.RikudouSennin wrote:There is a saying, that siddhas have siddha gurus.
Is this true for Tertons, do they usually have a guru who was a terton?
Who can become terton?
And now for the grand question.
How to become terton?
2) Anyone who has A) been blessed by Guru Rinpoche b) is an advanced Dzogchen practitioner.
3) Refer to 2.
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Re: Tertön
We were recently with a Terton from Kham in the PRC. (His students have asked that His name not be mentioned on the Internet.) During the teachings He gave, He recounted His several different lineages, such as Longchen Nyinthig. Among these lineages was His "terton lineage." This went from Nyagla Pema Dudul to 1-2 names I forget to Nyagla Changchub Dorje (ChNNR's Root Guru) to the late Terton Odsal Dorje. This was the first time I had heard of "terton lineages."
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ
Re: Tertön
How advanced do you have to be?Malcolm wrote:1) Yes, generally tertons learn how to be tertons from other tertons, but not always.RikudouSennin wrote:There is a saying, that siddhas have siddha gurus.
Is this true for Tertons, do they usually have a guru who was a terton?
Who can become terton?
And now for the grand question.
How to become terton?
2) Anyone who has A) been blessed by Guru Rinpoche b) is an advanced Dzogchen practitioner.
3) Refer to 2.
Re: Tertön
You have to have reached the third so called "vision."Boomerang wrote:How advanced do you have to be?Malcolm wrote:1) Yes, generally tertons learn how to be tertons from other tertons, but not always.RikudouSennin wrote:There is a saying, that siddhas have siddha gurus.
Is this true for Tertons, do they usually have a guru who was a terton?
Who can become terton?
And now for the grand question.
How to become terton?
2) Anyone who has A) been blessed by Guru Rinpoche b) is an advanced Dzogchen practitioner.
3) Refer to 2.
The requirement for pure visions are not so stringent.
Re: Tertön
Pardon my ignorance. What is the difference between pure vision and a terma?
If I understood Alan Wallaces introduction correctly Dudjom Lingpas 5 Dzogchen texts (The Sharp Vajra of Conscious Awareness Tantra,
The Foolish Dharma of an Idiot Clothed in Mud and Feathers , The Enlightened View of Samantabhadra, Buddhahood Without Meditation, The Vajra Essence ) are from pure visions.
If I understood Alan Wallaces introduction correctly Dudjom Lingpas 5 Dzogchen texts (The Sharp Vajra of Conscious Awareness Tantra,
The Foolish Dharma of an Idiot Clothed in Mud and Feathers , The Enlightened View of Samantabhadra, Buddhahood Without Meditation, The Vajra Essence ) are from pure visions.
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
Re: Tertön
Right, which means they are a product of Dudjom Lingpa's experiential realization, rather than a text predicted by Guru Padmasambhava and concealed by him or one of the 25 disciples.RikudouSennin wrote:Pardon my ignorance. What is the difference between pure vision and a terma?
If I understood Alan Wallaces introduction correctly Dudjom Lingpas 5 Dzogchen texts (The Sharp Vajra of Conscious Awareness Tantra,
The Foolish Dharma of an Idiot Clothed in Mud and Feathers , The Enlightened View of Samantabhadra, Buddhahood Without Meditation, The Vajra Essence ) are from pure visions.
Re: Tertön
Ah, I see. Thank you.Malcolm wrote:Right, which means they are a product of Dudjom Lingpa's experiential realization, rather than a text predicted by Guru Padmasambhava and concealed by him or one of the 25 disciples.RikudouSennin wrote:Pardon my ignorance. What is the difference between pure vision and a terma?
If I understood Alan Wallaces introduction correctly Dudjom Lingpas 5 Dzogchen texts (The Sharp Vajra of Conscious Awareness Tantra,
The Foolish Dharma of an Idiot Clothed in Mud and Feathers , The Enlightened View of Samantabhadra, Buddhahood Without Meditation, The Vajra Essence ) are from pure visions.
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
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Re: Tertön
What do you consider this as?Malcolm wrote:The requirement for pure visions are not so stringent.
Jigme Lingpa fell asleep while contemplating Guru Rinpoche very strongly.
In the ensuing dream, he receives the Longchen Nyingthig:
https://books.google.com/books?id=lmqSo ... %2C&f=true
https://books.google.com/books?id=qMUh9 ... p.&f=false
P.S. By the way, it is a misunderstanding that Jigme Linpga receives the Longchen Nyingthig from his later visions of Longchenpa.
On pages 169-171, Gyatso says:
"Jigme Lingpa's visionary meetings with this revered master are sometimes taken as the source of the Longchen Nyingtig, especially since the "Longchen" in the title is also a part of this teacher's name. However it seems that the term there has the literal meaning of "great expanse" rather than referring to the person called Longchenpa. As is clear in the secret autobiographies, Jigme Lingpa understands the Longchen Nyingtig to have been revealed to him in his vision of Bodhnath and to have been formulated by Padmasambhava."
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Re: Tertön
I think Naropa has a degree program for that now.RikudouSennin wrote:How to become terton?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Tertön
A weekend certificate course, so I hear.dzogchungpa wrote:I think Naropa has a degree program for that now.RikudouSennin wrote:How to become terton?
Re: Tertön
Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
Re: Tertön
oh nice I'm looking forward to the online course as well...Malcolm wrote:A weekend certificate course, so I hear.dzogchungpa wrote:I think Naropa has a degree program for that now.RikudouSennin wrote:How to become terton?
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
Re: Tertön
Available only as an online recording or as a DVD.RikudouSennin wrote:oh nice I'm looking forward to the online course as well...Malcolm wrote:A weekend certificate course, so I hear.dzogchungpa wrote: I think Naropa has a degree program for that now.
Last edited by Grigoris on Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Tertön
Not just anyone, pael. Only people who are one the bodhisattva stages who also have the correct dependent origination accumulate through past lives.pael wrote:Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
Re: Tertön
Anyone who makes the correct effort.Malcolm wrote:Not just anyone, pael. Only people who are one the bodhisattva stages who also have the correct dependent origination accumulate through past lives.pael wrote:Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Tertön
Hm.
orMalcolm wrote:Not just anyone, pael. Only people who are one the bodhisattva stages who also have the correct dependent origination accumulate through past lives.pael wrote:Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
?Grigoris wrote:Anyone who makes the correct effort.Malcolm wrote:Not just anyone, pael. Only people who are one the bodhisattva stages who also have the correct dependent origination accumulate through past lives.pael wrote:Were Virupa tertön? Who was his guru? He found Hevajra tantra, right? Can anyone find new tantra?
Re: Tertön
Basically we are saying the same thing. What Malcolm is outlining is the correct effort I am referring to.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Tertön
I'm not so sure. You're saying that with the right kind of effort, anyone could become a terton. (unless you are saying something else, in which case please correct me).Grigoris wrote:Basically we are saying the same thing. What Malcolm is outlining is the correct effort I am referring to.
Malcolm is saying that the right kind of effort for someone today would have to involve getting in a time machine to create the correct causal relations to Guru Rinpoche in a past life. (unless I understand Malcolm incorrectly, &c).
Re: Tertön
What I was saying is that in order to be terton one must be a reincarnation of one of the twenty five disciples.DGA wrote:I'm not so sure. You're saying that with the right kind of effort, anyone could become a terton. (unless you are saying something else, in which case please correct me).Grigoris wrote:Basically we are saying the same thing. What Malcolm is outlining is the correct effort I am referring to.
Malcolm is saying that the right kind of effort for someone today would have to involve getting in a time machine to create the correct causal relations to Guru Rinpoche in a past life. (unless I understand Malcolm incorrectly, &c).
Of course, this a very specific Tibetan socio-historical phenomena. Becoming realized person is the basic qualification for revealing any sort of new teaching of the Buddhas into the world.