Difference between revisions of "Ghosa Suttas: Voice"
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"[[Monks]], there are these two [[conditions]] for the [[arising]] of [[wrong view]]. Which two? The {{Wiki|voice}} of another<ref>Woodward, in the PTS translation, renders parato ghoso as "a {{Wiki|voice}} from another [[world]]," and in a footnote interprets it as "clairaudience from another ([[world]])." To summarize his {{Wiki|reasoning}}: If ordinary [[speech]] were meant, the [[word]] vaacaa or vaacii would have been used instead of ghoso; and if another [[person]] were meant, [[aññassa]] or aññatarassa would have been used instead of parato. Finally, he notes that this passage appears also in MN 43 following a statement of "abnormal [[powers]]," which apparently is meant to show that, in context, this statement must refer to the type of [[psychic]] [[knowledge]] that derives from abnormal [[powers]]. | "[[Monks]], there are these two [[conditions]] for the [[arising]] of [[wrong view]]. Which two? The {{Wiki|voice}} of another<ref>Woodward, in the PTS translation, renders parato ghoso as "a {{Wiki|voice}} from another [[world]]," and in a footnote interprets it as "clairaudience from another ([[world]])." To summarize his {{Wiki|reasoning}}: If ordinary [[speech]] were meant, the [[word]] vaacaa or vaacii would have been used instead of ghoso; and if another [[person]] were meant, [[aññassa]] or aññatarassa would have been used instead of parato. Finally, he notes that this passage appears also in MN 43 following a statement of "abnormal [[powers]]," which apparently is meant to show that, in context, this statement must refer to the type of [[psychic]] [[knowledge]] that derives from abnormal [[powers]]. | ||
| − | There are several problems with this interpretation, the first being that it leaves no room for an event happening many times in the [[Canon]]: [[people]] gaining [[right view]] simply on hearing the words of another [[person]]. One [[scholar]] has tried to get around this objection, saying that the {{Wiki|voice}} from another [[world]] must refer to the {{Wiki|voice}} of the [[Buddha]] or to one of the [[noble]] [[disciples]] who gained [[Awakening]] on hearing the [[Buddha's]] own {{Wiki|voice}}. The implication here is that only the words of these two classes of [[people]] can inspire [[right view]]. This position, however, is disproved by the fact that in Mv.I.23.5 Ven. [[Sariputta]], who at that point has not yet met the [[Buddha]], is able to inspire the [[arising]] of the [[Dhamma]] [[eye]] in Ven. [[Moggallana]]. This passage appears in the long origin story leading up to the rules dealing with [[ordination]], and proves an important point in validating the [[tradition]] of [[ordination]]: that a [[person]] who has not met the [[Buddha]] can still inspire [[right view]] and even [[Awakening]] in the [[mind]] of another. So the [[Canon]] itself disproves both of these otherworldly interpretations of this statement. | + | There are several problems with this [[interpretation]], the first being that it leaves no room for an event happening many times in the [[Canon]]: [[people]] gaining [[right view]] simply on hearing the words of another [[person]]. One [[scholar]] has tried to get around this objection, saying that the {{Wiki|voice}} from another [[world]] must refer to the {{Wiki|voice}} of the [[Buddha]] or to one of the [[noble]] [[disciples]] who gained [[Awakening]] on hearing the [[Buddha's]] [[own]] {{Wiki|voice}}. The implication here is that only the words of these two classes of [[people]] can inspire [[right view]]. This position, however, is disproved by the fact that in Mv.I.23.5 Ven. [[Sariputta]], who at that point has not yet met the [[Buddha]], is able to inspire the [[arising]] of the [[Dhamma]] [[eye]] in Ven. [[Moggallana]]. This passage appears in the long origin story leading up to the {{Wiki|rules}} dealing with [[ordination]], and proves an important point in validating the [[tradition]] of [[ordination]]: that a [[person]] who has not met the [[Buddha]] can still inspire [[right view]] and even [[Awakening]] in the [[mind]] of another. So the [[Canon]] itself disproves both of these otherworldly interpretations of this statement. |
As for Woodward's {{Wiki|linguistic}} arguments: It is hard for a non-native speaker of a [[dead]] [[language]] to know the {{Wiki|reasoning}} in the [[mind]] of a native speaker in that [[language]], but it might have been the case that the [[Buddha]] avoided the [[word]] [[aññassa]] for "other" because it could have easily been confused for another meaning of [[aññassa]], "pertaining to the [[knowledge]] of an [[arahant]]." As for vaacii and aññatarassa, neither of them fits the context. Vaacii is a stem-form used in compounds, and aññatarassa means "of a certain [[person]]." This leaves vaacaa, "statement" as a possible alternative, but perhaps the [[Buddha]] chose ghoso to leave room for the possibility that there are times when one can bring another to his/her [[senses]] simply by clearing one's {{Wiki|throat}}. | As for Woodward's {{Wiki|linguistic}} arguments: It is hard for a non-native speaker of a [[dead]] [[language]] to know the {{Wiki|reasoning}} in the [[mind]] of a native speaker in that [[language]], but it might have been the case that the [[Buddha]] avoided the [[word]] [[aññassa]] for "other" because it could have easily been confused for another meaning of [[aññassa]], "pertaining to the [[knowledge]] of an [[arahant]]." As for vaacii and aññatarassa, neither of them fits the context. Vaacii is a stem-form used in compounds, and aññatarassa means "of a certain [[person]]." This leaves vaacaa, "statement" as a possible alternative, but perhaps the [[Buddha]] chose ghoso to leave room for the possibility that there are times when one can bring another to his/her [[senses]] simply by clearing one's {{Wiki|throat}}. | ||
| − | Finally, concerning the passage from MN 43: This [[sutta]] is a long series of questions and answers that abruptly switch from topic to topic, so it's hard to say that the [[sutta]] provides a clear [[sense]] of context for any of its statements. That said, however, it's not even the case that this passage follows on a statement about abnormal [[powers]]. It actually follows on two questions about [[discernment]], which in turn follow on a [[discussion]] of the [[formless]] [[jhanas]] — apparently the "abnormal [[powers]]" mentioned by Woodward — and as AN IX.36 and MN 140 show, it's possible to develop [[discernment]] based on these attainments without [[psychic]] [[powers]].</ref> and inappropriate [[attention]]. These are the two [[conditions]] for the [[arising]] of [[wrong view]]." | + | Finally, concerning the passage from MN 43: This [[sutta]] is a long series of questions and answers that abruptly switch from topic to topic, so it's hard to say that the [[sutta]] provides a clear [[sense]] of context for any of its statements. That said, however, it's not even the case that this passage follows on a statement about abnormal [[powers]]. It actually follows on two questions about [[discernment]], which in turn follow on a [[discussion]] of the [[formless]] [[jhanas]] — apparently the "abnormal [[powers]]" mentioned by Woodward — and as AN IX.36 and MN 140 show, it's possible to develop [[discernment]] based on these [[attainments]] without [[psychic]] [[powers]].</ref> and inappropriate [[attention]]. These are the two [[conditions]] for the [[arising]] of [[wrong view]]." |
"[[Monks]], there are these two [[conditions]] for the [[arising]] of [[right view]]. Which two? The {{Wiki|voice}} of another and appropriate [[attention]]. These are the two [[conditions]] for the [[arising]] of [[right view]]." | "[[Monks]], there are these two [[conditions]] for the [[arising]] of [[right view]]. Which two? The {{Wiki|voice}} of another and appropriate [[attention]]. These are the two [[conditions]] for the [[arising]] of [[right view]]." | ||
Latest revision as of 06:15, 9 March 2015
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AN 2.125-126
Ghosa Suttas: Voice
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
"Monks, there are these two conditions for the arising of wrong view. Which two? The voice of another[1] and inappropriate attention. These are the two conditions for the arising of wrong view."
"Monks, there are these two conditions for the arising of right view. Which two? The voice of another and appropriate attention. These are the two conditions for the arising of right view."
Footnotes
- ↑ Woodward, in the PTS translation, renders parato ghoso as "a voice from another world," and in a footnote interprets it as "clairaudience from another (world)." To summarize his reasoning: If ordinary speech were meant, the word vaacaa or vaacii would have been used instead of ghoso; and if another person were meant, aññassa or aññatarassa would have been used instead of parato. Finally, he notes that this passage appears also in MN 43 following a statement of "abnormal powers," which apparently is meant to show that, in context, this statement must refer to the type of psychic knowledge that derives from abnormal powers. There are several problems with this interpretation, the first being that it leaves no room for an event happening many times in the Canon: people gaining right view simply on hearing the words of another person. One scholar has tried to get around this objection, saying that the voice from another world must refer to the voice of the Buddha or to one of the noble disciples who gained Awakening on hearing the Buddha's own voice. The implication here is that only the words of these two classes of people can inspire right view. This position, however, is disproved by the fact that in Mv.I.23.5 Ven. Sariputta, who at that point has not yet met the Buddha, is able to inspire the arising of the Dhamma eye in Ven. Moggallana. This passage appears in the long origin story leading up to the rules dealing with ordination, and proves an important point in validating the tradition of ordination: that a person who has not met the Buddha can still inspire right view and even Awakening in the mind of another. So the Canon itself disproves both of these otherworldly interpretations of this statement. As for Woodward's linguistic arguments: It is hard for a non-native speaker of a dead language to know the reasoning in the mind of a native speaker in that language, but it might have been the case that the Buddha avoided the word aññassa for "other" because it could have easily been confused for another meaning of aññassa, "pertaining to the knowledge of an arahant." As for vaacii and aññatarassa, neither of them fits the context. Vaacii is a stem-form used in compounds, and aññatarassa means "of a certain person." This leaves vaacaa, "statement" as a possible alternative, but perhaps the Buddha chose ghoso to leave room for the possibility that there are times when one can bring another to his/her senses simply by clearing one's throat. Finally, concerning the passage from MN 43: This sutta is a long series of questions and answers that abruptly switch from topic to topic, so it's hard to say that the sutta provides a clear sense of context for any of its statements. That said, however, it's not even the case that this passage follows on a statement about abnormal powers. It actually follows on two questions about discernment, which in turn follow on a discussion of the formless jhanas — apparently the "abnormal powers" mentioned by Woodward — and as AN IX.36 and MN 140 show, it's possible to develop discernment based on these attainments without psychic powers.
Source
"Ghosa Suttas: Voice" (AN 2.125-126), translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight (Legacy Edition), 30 November 2013, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an02/an02.125-126.than.html .
