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Difference between revisions of "Commonly Raised Objections"

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<poem>
 
<poem>
  What a [[touching]] story! Those terms refer to the state of [[no-self]], dolt: they refer to what’s still there when the [[self]] is gone ... ‘There is nothing but x’; substitute for ‘x’ any term ...
+
  What a [[touching]] story! Those terms refer to the [[state]] of [[no-self]], dolt: they refer to what’s still there when the [[self]] is gone ... ‘There is nothing but x’; substitute for ‘x’ any term ...
+
 
  
 
What about the narcissistic [[feelings]] that come from over-immersion in something that claims to be new and exciting? You could consider the possibility that part of the [[reason]] why you get so many objections is because [[people]] see in your position nothing but another [[vacuous]] attempt at ‘originality’.
 
What about the narcissistic [[feelings]] that come from over-immersion in something that claims to be new and exciting? You could consider the possibility that part of the [[reason]] why you get so many objections is because [[people]] see in your position nothing but another [[vacuous]] attempt at ‘originality’.
+
 
 +
 
  
 
{{Wiki|Sounds}} reasonable but hardly new.
 
{{Wiki|Sounds}} reasonable but hardly new.
 
  
There is nothing new under the {{Wiki|sun}}.
 
 
  
There is nothing new in the [[idea]] of using [[mindfulness]] as a methodical approach to [[awakening]]. If [[effort]] at [[self-mastery]] makes [[sense]] to you right now, so be it. The nondualistic approach is difficult to penetrate. To ask and stay {{Wiki|aware}} of what I am experiencing now is [[mindfulness]]. If it is a technique to bring about a [[desired]] result such as self-immolation or freedom from [[conditioned]] {{Wiki|reaction}}, it is [[effort]] at [[self-mastery]] in which the old me is gone and the [[desired]] state only remains, i.e.: [[attainment]]. [[Dualistic]] approach is [[effort]] to bring about a [[desired]] result of freedom for me. It starts with [[belief]] that I know what is and I know what I want, what should be, so I will work to get there.
+
There is nothing new under the
+
{{Wiki|sun}}.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
There is nothing new in the [[idea]] of using [[mindfulness]] as a methodical approach to [[awakening]]. If [[effort]] at [[self-mastery]] makes [[sense]] to you right now, so be it. The nondualistic approach is difficult to penetrate. To ask and stay
 +
{{Wiki|aware}} of what I am experiencing now is [[mindfulness]]. If it is a technique to bring about a [[desired]] result such as self-immolation or freedom from [[conditioned]]
 +
{{Wiki|reaction}}, it is [[effort]] at [[self-mastery]] in which the old me is gone and the [[desired]] [[state]] only remains, i.e.: [[attainment]]. [[Dualistic]] approach is [[effort]] to bring about a [[desired]] result of freedom for me. It starts with [[belief]] that I know what is and I know what I want, what should be, so I will work to get there.
 +
 
  
 
Can you point out how the actual-ism is different from any other here-and-now-ism?
 
Can you point out how the actual-ism is different from any other here-and-now-ism?
 
  
I also do not find anything radical in Richard’s teachings. I already am {{Wiki|aware}} of most of this stuff thanks mainly to [[Osho]] and other eastern [[philosophies]].
+
 
+
I also do not find anything radical in Richard’s teachings. I already am
 +
{{Wiki|aware}} of most of this stuff thanks mainly to [[Osho]] and other eastern [[philosophies]].
 +
 
  
 
I have studied long and hard and find much that is familiar to your method. Indeed it is [[identical]] to some methods that would call themselves ‘[[meditation]]’ – it is all just words.
 
I have studied long and hard and find much that is familiar to your method. Indeed it is [[identical]] to some methods that would call themselves ‘[[meditation]]’ – it is all just words.
 
  
And ... at the end of the day (week, month, year), if I have concluded that indeed there is something radically different and radically worthwhile going on here (i.e. a legitimate 3rd alternative able to at long last deliver the goods ... i.e. AF), I will have no trouble, I assure you, in permanently re-adjusting my [[Wikipedia:cognition|cognitive]] maps and models as you, Mr. Peter and Ms. Vineeto have done, regardless of my [[Wikipedia:Absolute (philosophy)|ultimate]] [[judgement]] of any of the PROMOTERS and their integrity at any given moment. And finally, just so you and everyone else here [[knows]]: I’m very comfortable being proven wrong, about things small or large.
 
 
  
This is completely untrue, in that it is the [[teaching]] of the school of the [[Dalai Lama]], the [[prasangika madhyamika]] or [[middle way]] consequence school that such is the case, and is spoken of somewhat frequently in teachings. It is also the [[teaching]] of J. [[Wikipedia:Jiddu Krishnamurti|Krishnamurti]], though he never refers to it directly, it is obvious that is saying that it is natural for a [[human being]] to move away from [[pain]] toward [[pleasure]] as an act of insecurity, and for the [[memory]] [[function]] to [[function]] from a reference point of looking back at the {{Wiki|past}} and selecting a configuration of subjectively chosen details that eventually becomes a [[psychological]] center, due to {{Wiki|fear}}. This is also implied in many other teachings, such as the [[teaching]] of [[Christianity]], for one.
+
And ... at the end of the day (week, month, year), if I have concluded that indeed there is something radically different and radically worthwhile going on here (i.e. a legitimate 3rd alternative able to at long last deliver the goods ... i.e. AF), I will have no trouble, I assure you, in permanently re-adjusting my [[Wikipedia:cognition|cognitive]] maps and models as you, Mr. Peter and Ms. Vineeto have done, regardless of my [[Wikipedia:Absolute (philosophy)|ultimate]] [[judgement]] of any of the PROMOTERS and their [[integrity]] at any given [[moment]]. And finally, just so you and everyone else here [[knows]]: I’m very comfortable being proven wrong, about things small or large.
 
  
It’s hard to believe that all the [[mystic]] [[traditions]] are just a vast conspiracy to suppress and enslave [[souls]]. Has Richard ever met Michael Roads, a fellow [[Australian]], author of works such as Talking With [[Nature]], Journey into [[Nature]], Journey into [[Oneness]]? Michael is as unpretentious as they come ... and I find a lot expansiveness in his {{Wiki|perspective}} on [[life]]. Check him out and give me a critique if you please.
 
 
  
This is typical [[Taoism]]. Are other aspects of actualism also derived from {{Wiki|Ancient}} [[Wisdom]]?
+
This is completely untrue, in that it is the [[teaching]] of the school of the [[Dalai Lama]], the [[prasangika madhyamika]] or [[middle way]] consequence school that such is the case, and is spoken of somewhat frequently in teachings. It is also the [[teaching]] of J. [[Wikipedia:Jiddu Krishnamurti|Krishnamurti]], though he never refers to it directly, it is obvious that is saying that it is natural for a [[human being]] to move away from [[pain]] toward [[pleasure]] as an act of insecurity, and for the [[memory]] [[function]] to [[function]] from a reference point of looking back at the
+
{{Wiki|past}} and selecting a configuration of subjectively chosen details that eventually becomes a [[psychological]] center, due to
 +
{{Wiki|fear}}. This is also implied in many other teachings, such as the [[teaching]] of [[Christianity]], for one.
  
This {{Wiki|sounds}} very much like basic [[Tantra]] [[teaching]]. Just replace your term ‘peace-on-earth’ with ‘[[enlightenment]]’ or ‘my [[Buddha nature]]’. ‘[[Enlightenment]] is already here, my [[Buddha nature]] is already here; it always has been here and always will be here ... now. It is ‘me’ that stands in the way of this already always [[enlightenment being]] apparent, it is ‘me’ that stands in the way of my [[Buddha nature]] being apparent’. ‘When ‘I’ self-immolate in ‘my’ {{Wiki|totality}}, then the {{Wiki|individual}} [[enlightenment]], the {{Wiki|individual}} [[Buddha nature]] is evident ... for one [[person]]’. ‘Then one is living in this actual [[world]] ... the value-free [[world]] of the [[senses]]’. Is it so?
 
 
  
The direct [[experience]] that {{Wiki|matter}} is not merely passive is not new in [[human]] history. What you call ‘{{Wiki|matter}}’ or ‘the [[universe]]’, they call ‘{{Wiki|Allah}}’. However, you will not [[acknowledge]] this.
+
It’s hard to believe that all the [[mystic]] [[traditions]] are just a vast conspiracy to suppress and enslave [[souls]]. Has Richard ever met Michael Roads, a fellow [[Australian]], author of works such as Talking With [[Nature]], Journey into [[Nature]], Journey into [[Oneness]]? Michael is as unpretentious as they come ... and I find a lot expansiveness in his
+
{{Wiki|perspective}} on [[life]]. Check him out and give me a critique if you please.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
This is typical [[Taoism]]. Are other aspects of actualism also derived from
 +
{{Wiki|Ancient}} [[Wisdom]]?
 +
 
 +
 
 +
This
 +
{{Wiki|sounds}} very much like basic [[Tantra]] [[teaching]]. Just replace your term ‘peace-on-earth’ with ‘[[enlightenment]]’ or ‘my [[Buddha nature]]’. ‘[[Enlightenment]] is already here, my [[Buddha nature]] is already here; it always has been here and always will be here ... now. It is ‘me’ that stands in the way of this already always [[enlightenment being]] apparent, it is ‘me’ that stands in the way of my [[Buddha nature]] being apparent’. ‘When ‘I’ self-immolate in ‘my’
 +
{{Wiki|totality}}, then the
 +
{{Wiki|individual}} [[enlightenment]], the
 +
{{Wiki|individual}} [[Buddha nature]] is evident ... for one [[person]]’. ‘Then one is living in this actual [[world]] ... the value-free [[world]] of the [[senses]]’. Is it so?
 +
 
 +
 
 +
The direct [[experience]] that
 +
{{Wiki|matter}} is not merely passive is not new in [[human]] history. What you call ‘
 +
{{Wiki|matter}}’ or ‘the [[universe]]’, they call ‘
 +
{{Wiki|Allah}}’. However, you will not [[acknowledge]] this.
 +
 
  
 
However, I do question some of the assertions that adorn your [[essential]] message. (...) Furthermore, it is almost exactly what the [[Buddha]] [[taught]], as was Krishnamurti’s [[teaching]]. The [[Buddha]] and [[Wikipedia:Jiddu Krishnamurti|Krishnamurti]] were both emphatic that there is ‘NO SELF’ to be found (higher, lower or whatever) and that it is the holding on to this ‘[[illusion]] of [[self]]’ that is at the [[root]] of all [[suffering]]!
 
However, I do question some of the assertions that adorn your [[essential]] message. (...) Furthermore, it is almost exactly what the [[Buddha]] [[taught]], as was Krishnamurti’s [[teaching]]. The [[Buddha]] and [[Wikipedia:Jiddu Krishnamurti|Krishnamurti]] were both emphatic that there is ‘NO SELF’ to be found (higher, lower or whatever) and that it is the holding on to this ‘[[illusion]] of [[self]]’ that is at the [[root]] of all [[suffering]]!
 
  
[quote] ‘For thousands of years, [[human beings]] …’. [endquote]. [quote] ‘Now, for the first [[time]] ...’. [endquote]. Hmmm ... Did a minute read and let’s see ... [quote] ‘Actual Freedom has nothing to do with the [[traditional]] [[spiritual path]] of {{Wiki|transcendence}} and avoidance ...’. [endquote]. Basic [[Buddhist]] [[mindfulness]] [[meditation]] stresses involvement with [[life]]. [quote] ‘[[Enhancement]] of ‘good’ [[emotion]] ... {{Wiki|denial}} of ‘bad’ [[emotion]] via sublimation’. [endquote]. Again, basic [[Buddhist]] [[mindfulness]] [[meditation]] embraces all [[good and bad]] [[emotion]]. Read Nisargadatta ... better description. Hmm ... this Richard ... he probably has reached [[constant]] [[pure awareness]] or maybe not. For some [[people]] here I suggest you study {{Wiki|Western philosophy}} [and NLP] so one can think, read, write and argue clearly, [[logically]].
 
 
  
Did you read the ‘Being Here Now’ [[book]] by [[Ram]] Das? Do you recall the bit where the young Richard Alpert is off to find the [[truth]] and comes across a {{Wiki|holy}} man who just is not [[interested]] in his stories of the {{Wiki|past}}, in his [[emotions]] or imaginings, only in ‘Being Here Now’. Hence the title of the [[book]]. Could you explain how ‘your’ ‘Being Here Now’ is different than the ‘Being Here Now’ of Richard Alpert, who, I am assuming, is, in your estimation, one of those [[gurus]] who has [[caused]] the whole bloody mess this {{Wiki|planet}} is in?
+
[quote] ‘For thousands of years, [[human beings]] …’. [endquote]. [quote] ‘Now, for the first [[time]] ...’. [endquote]. Hmmm ... Did a minute read and let’s see ... [quote] ‘Actual Freedom has nothing to do with the [[traditional]] [[spiritual path]] of
 +
{{Wiki|transcendence}} and avoidance ...’. [endquote]. Basic [[Buddhist]] [[mindfulness]] [[meditation]] stresses involvement with [[life]]. [quote] ‘[[Enhancement]] of ‘good’ [[emotion]] ...
 +
{{Wiki|denial}} of ‘bad’ [[emotion]] via sublimation’. [endquote]. Again, basic [[Buddhist]] [[mindfulness]] [[meditation]] embraces all [[good and bad]] [[emotion]]. Read Nisargadatta ... better description. Hmm ... this Richard ... he probably has reached [[constant]] [[pure awareness]] or maybe not. For some [[people]] here I suggest you study
 +
{{Wiki|Western philosophy}} [and NLP] so one can think, read, write and argue clearly, [[logically]].
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Did you read the ‘Being Here Now’ [[book]] by [[Ram]] Das? Do you recall the bit where the young Richard Alpert is off to find the [[truth]] and comes across a
 +
{{Wiki|holy}} man who just is not [[interested]] in his stories of the
 +
{{Wiki|past}}, in his [[emotions]] or imaginings, only in ‘Being Here Now’. Hence the title of the [[book]]. Could you explain how ‘your’ ‘Being Here Now’ is different than the ‘Being Here Now’ of Richard Alpert, who, I am assuming, is, in your estimation, one of those [[gurus]] who has [[caused]] the whole bloody mess this
 +
{{Wiki|planet}} is in?
 
</poem>
 
</poem>
 +
 
{{R}}
 
{{R}}
 
[http://actualfreedom.com.au/sundry/commonobjections/CRO04.htm actualfreedom.com.au]
 
[http://actualfreedom.com.au/sundry/commonobjections/CRO04.htm actualfreedom.com.au]
 +
 
[[Category:Buddhism Related Articles]]
 
[[Category:Buddhism Related Articles]]

Revision as of 18:06, 16 February 2015

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 What a touching story! Those terms refer to the state of no-self, dolt: they refer to what’s still there when the self is gone ... ‘There is nothing but x’; substitute for ‘x’ any term ...


What about the narcissistic feelings that come from over-immersion in something that claims to be new and exciting? You could consider the possibility that part of the reason why you get so many objections is because people see in your position nothing but another vacuous attempt at ‘originality’.



Sounds reasonable but hardly new.


There is nothing new under the
sun.


There is nothing new in the idea of using mindfulness as a methodical approach to awakening. If effort at self-mastery makes sense to you right now, so be it. The nondualistic approach is difficult to penetrate. To ask and stay
aware of what I am experiencing now is mindfulness. If it is a technique to bring about a desired result such as self-immolation or freedom from conditioned
reaction, it is effort at self-mastery in which the old me is gone and the desired state only remains, i.e.: attainment. Dualistic approach is effort to bring about a desired result of freedom for me. It starts with belief that I know what is and I know what I want, what should be, so I will work to get there.


Can you point out how the actual-ism is different from any other here-and-now-ism?


I also do not find anything radical in Richard’s teachings. I already am
aware of most of this stuff thanks mainly to Osho and other eastern philosophies.


I have studied long and hard and find much that is familiar to your method. Indeed it is identical to some methods that would call themselves ‘meditation’ – it is all just words.


And ... at the end of the day (week, month, year), if I have concluded that indeed there is something radically different and radically worthwhile going on here (i.e. a legitimate 3rd alternative able to at long last deliver the goods ... i.e. AF), I will have no trouble, I assure you, in permanently re-adjusting my cognitive maps and models as you, Mr. Peter and Ms. Vineeto have done, regardless of my ultimate judgement of any of the PROMOTERS and their integrity at any given moment. And finally, just so you and everyone else here knows: I’m very comfortable being proven wrong, about things small or large.


This is completely untrue, in that it is the teaching of the school of the Dalai Lama, the prasangika madhyamika or middle way consequence school that such is the case, and is spoken of somewhat frequently in teachings. It is also the teaching of J. Krishnamurti, though he never refers to it directly, it is obvious that is saying that it is natural for a human being to move away from pain toward pleasure as an act of insecurity, and for the memory function to function from a reference point of looking back at the
past and selecting a configuration of subjectively chosen details that eventually becomes a psychological center, due to
fear. This is also implied in many other teachings, such as the teaching of Christianity, for one.


It’s hard to believe that all the mystic traditions are just a vast conspiracy to suppress and enslave souls. Has Richard ever met Michael Roads, a fellow Australian, author of works such as Talking With Nature, Journey into Nature, Journey into Oneness? Michael is as unpretentious as they come ... and I find a lot expansiveness in his
perspective on life. Check him out and give me a critique if you please.


This is typical Taoism. Are other aspects of actualism also derived from
Ancient Wisdom?


This
sounds very much like basic Tantra teaching. Just replace your term ‘peace-on-earth’ with ‘enlightenment’ or ‘my Buddha nature’. ‘Enlightenment is already here, my Buddha nature is already here; it always has been here and always will be here ... now. It is ‘me’ that stands in the way of this already always enlightenment being apparent, it is ‘me’ that stands in the way of my Buddha nature being apparent’. ‘When ‘I’ self-immolate in ‘my’
totality, then the
individual enlightenment, the
individual Buddha nature is evident ... for one person’. ‘Then one is living in this actual world ... the value-free world of the senses’. Is it so?


The direct experience that
matter is not merely passive is not new in human history. What you call ‘
matter’ or ‘the universe’, they call ‘
Allah’. However, you will not acknowledge this.


However, I do question some of the assertions that adorn your essential message. (...) Furthermore, it is almost exactly what the Buddha taught, as was Krishnamurti’s teaching. The Buddha and Krishnamurti were both emphatic that there is ‘NO SELF’ to be found (higher, lower or whatever) and that it is the holding on to this ‘illusion of self’ that is at the root of all suffering!


[quote] ‘For thousands of years, human beings …’. [endquote]. [quote] ‘Now, for the first time ...’. [endquote]. Hmmm ... Did a minute read and let’s see ... [quote] ‘Actual Freedom has nothing to do with the traditional spiritual path of
transcendence and avoidance ...’. [endquote]. Basic Buddhist mindfulness meditation stresses involvement with life. [quote] ‘Enhancement of ‘good’ emotion ...
denial of ‘bad’ emotion via sublimation’. [endquote]. Again, basic Buddhist mindfulness meditation embraces all good and bad emotion. Read Nisargadatta ... better description. Hmm ... this Richard ... he probably has reached constant pure awareness or maybe not. For some people here I suggest you study
Western philosophy [and NLP] so one can think, read, write and argue clearly, logically.


Did you read the ‘Being Here Now’ book by Ram Das? Do you recall the bit where the young Richard Alpert is off to find the truth and comes across a
holy man who just is not interested in his stories of the
past, in his emotions or imaginings, only in ‘Being Here Now’. Hence the title of the book. Could you explain how ‘your’ ‘Being Here Now’ is different than the ‘Being Here Now’ of Richard Alpert, who, I am assuming, is, in your estimation, one of those gurus who has caused the whole bloody mess this
planet is in?

Source

actualfreedom.com.au