Difference between revisions of "Kutuhalasala Sutta"
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[[Thanissaro Bhikkhu]]}}<br/><br/> | [[Thanissaro Bhikkhu]]}}<br/><br/> | ||
| − | Then [[Vacchagotta]] the {{Wiki|wanderer}} went to the [[Blessed One]] and, on arrival, exchanged courteous [[greetings]] with him. After an exchange of friendly [[greetings]] & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the [[Blessed One]], "[[Master]] [[Gotama]], a few days ago a large number of contemplatives, [[brahmans]], and [[wanderers]] of various sects were sitting together in the [[Debating]] Hall when this [[conversation]] arose among them: 'This {{Wiki|Purana Kassapa}} the leader of a {{Wiki|community}}, the leader of a group, the [[teacher]] of a group, honored and famous, esteemed as {{Wiki|holy}} by the mass of [[people]] describes a [[disciple]] who has [[died]] and passed on in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." Even when the [[disciple]] is an [[Wikipedia:Absolute (philosophy)|ultimate]] [[person]], a foremost [[person]], [[attained]] to the foremost [[attainment]], {{Wiki|Purana Kassapa}} describes him, when he has [[died]] and passed on, in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." | + | Then [[Vacchagotta]] the {{Wiki|wanderer}} went to the [[Blessed One]] and, on arrival, exchanged courteous [[greetings]] with him. After an exchange of friendly [[greetings]] & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the [[Blessed One]], "[[Master]] [[Gotama]], a few days ago a large number of contemplatives, [[brahmans]], and [[wanderers]] of various sects were sitting together in the [[Debating]] Hall when this [[conversation]] arose among them: 'This {{Wiki|Purana Kassapa}} the leader of a {{Wiki|community}}, the leader of a group, the [[teacher]] of a group, honored and famous, esteemed as {{Wiki|holy}} by the {{Wiki|mass}} of [[people]] describes a [[disciple]] who has [[died]] and passed on in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." Even when the [[disciple]] is an [[Wikipedia:Absolute (philosophy)|ultimate]] [[person]], a foremost [[person]], [[attained]] to the foremost [[attainment]], {{Wiki|Purana Kassapa}} describes him, when he has [[died]] and passed on, in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." |
| − | "'This Makkhali Gosala... This [[Nigantha Nataputta]]... This [[Sañjaya]] Velatthaputta... This Pakudha [[Kaccana]]... This [[Ajita Kesakambala]] the leader of a {{Wiki|community}}, the leader of a group, the [[teacher]] of a group, honored and famous, esteemed as {{Wiki|holy}} by the mass of [[people]] describes a [[disciple]] who has [[died]] and passed on in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." Even when the [[disciple]] is an [[Wikipedia:Absolute (philosophy)|ultimate]] [[person]], a foremost [[person]], [[attained]] to the foremost [[attainment]], [[Ajita Kesakambala]] describes him, when he has [[died]] and passed on, in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." | + | "'This [[Makkhali Gosala]]... This [[Nigantha Nataputta]]... This [[Sañjaya]] Velatthaputta... This [[Pakudha]] [[Kaccana]]... This [[Ajita Kesakambala]] the leader of a {{Wiki|community}}, the leader of a group, the [[teacher]] of a group, honored and famous, esteemed as {{Wiki|holy}} by the {{Wiki|mass}} of [[people]] describes a [[disciple]] who has [[died]] and passed on in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." Even when the [[disciple]] is an [[Wikipedia:Absolute (philosophy)|ultimate]] [[person]], a foremost [[person]], [[attained]] to the foremost [[attainment]], [[Ajita Kesakambala]] describes him, when he has [[died]] and passed on, in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." |
| − | "This {{Wiki|contemplative}} [[Gotama]] the leader of a {{Wiki|community}}, the leader of a group, the [[teacher]] of a group, honored and famous, esteemed as {{Wiki|holy}} by the mass of [[people]] — describes a [[disciple]] who has [[died]] and passed on in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." But when the [[disciple]] is an [[Wikipedia:Absolute (philosophy)|ultimate]] [[person]], a foremost [[person]], [[attained]] to the foremost [[attainment]], [[Gotama]] the {{Wiki|contemplative}} does not describe him, when he has [[died]] and passed on, in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." Instead, he describes him thus: "He has cut through [[craving]], severed the [[fetter]], and by rightly breaking through [[conceit]] has made an end of [[suffering]] & [[stress]]."' | + | "This {{Wiki|contemplative}} [[Gotama]] the leader of a {{Wiki|community}}, the leader of a group, the [[teacher]] of a group, honored and famous, esteemed as {{Wiki|holy}} by the {{Wiki|mass}} of [[people]] — describes a [[disciple]] who has [[died]] and passed on in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." But when the [[disciple]] is an [[Wikipedia:Absolute (philosophy)|ultimate]] [[person]], a foremost [[person]], [[attained]] to the foremost [[attainment]], [[Gotama]] the {{Wiki|contemplative}} does not describe him, when he has [[died]] and passed on, in terms of places of [[rebirth]]: "That one is [[reborn]] there; that one is [[reborn]] there." Instead, he describes him thus: "He has cut through [[craving]], severed the [[fetter]], and by rightly breaking through [[conceit]] has made an end of [[suffering]] & [[stress]]."' |
"So I was simply befuddled. I was uncertain: How is the [[teaching]] of [[Gotama]] the {{Wiki|contemplative}} to be understood?" | "So I was simply befuddled. I was uncertain: How is the [[teaching]] of [[Gotama]] the {{Wiki|contemplative}} to be understood?" | ||
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"Of course you are befuddled, [[Vaccha]]. Of course you are uncertain. When there is a [[reason]] for befuddlement in you, uncertainty arises. I designate the [[rebirth]] of one who has [[sustenance]], [[Vaccha]], and not of one without [[sustenance]]. Just as a [[fire]] burns with [[sustenance]] and not without [[sustenance]], even so I designate the [[rebirth]] of one who has [[sustenance]] and not of one without [[sustenance]]." | "Of course you are befuddled, [[Vaccha]]. Of course you are uncertain. When there is a [[reason]] for befuddlement in you, uncertainty arises. I designate the [[rebirth]] of one who has [[sustenance]], [[Vaccha]], and not of one without [[sustenance]]. Just as a [[fire]] burns with [[sustenance]] and not without [[sustenance]], even so I designate the [[rebirth]] of one who has [[sustenance]] and not of one without [[sustenance]]." | ||
| − | "But, [[Master]] [[Gotama]], at the moment a flame is being swept on by the [[wind]] and goes a far distance, what do you designate as its [[sustenance]] then?" | + | "But, [[Master]] [[Gotama]], at the [[moment]] a flame is being swept on by the [[wind]] and goes a far distance, what do you designate as its [[sustenance]] then?" |
"[[Vaccha]], when a flame is being swept on by the [[wind]] and goes a far distance, I designate it as wind-sustained, for the [[wind]] is its [[sustenance]] at that [[time]]." | "[[Vaccha]], when a flame is being swept on by the [[wind]] and goes a far distance, I designate it as wind-sustained, for the [[wind]] is its [[sustenance]] at that [[time]]." | ||
| − | "And at the moment when a being sets this [[body]] aside and is not yet [[reborn]] in another [[body]], what do you designate as its [[sustenance]] then?" | + | "And at the [[moment]] when a being sets this [[body]] aside and is not yet [[reborn]] in another [[body]], what do you designate as its [[sustenance]] then?" |
"[[Vaccha]], when a being sets this [[body]] aside and is not yet [[reborn]] in another [[body]], I designate it as craving-sustained, for [[craving]] is its [[sustenance]] at that [[time]]." | "[[Vaccha]], when a being sets this [[body]] aside and is not yet [[reborn]] in another [[body]], I designate it as craving-sustained, for [[craving]] is its [[sustenance]] at that [[time]]." | ||
Latest revision as of 07:23, 9 March 2015
Kutuhalasala Sutta: With Vacchagotta
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
Then Vacchagotta the wanderer went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One, "Master Gotama, a few days ago a large number of contemplatives, brahmans, and wanderers of various sects were sitting together in the Debating Hall when this conversation arose among them: 'This Purana Kassapa the leader of a community, the leader of a group, the teacher of a group, honored and famous, esteemed as holy by the mass of people describes a disciple who has died and passed on in terms of places of rebirth: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there." Even when the disciple is an ultimate person, a foremost person, attained to the foremost attainment, Purana Kassapa describes him, when he has died and passed on, in terms of places of rebirth: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there."
"'This Makkhali Gosala... This Nigantha Nataputta... This Sañjaya Velatthaputta... This Pakudha Kaccana... This Ajita Kesakambala the leader of a community, the leader of a group, the teacher of a group, honored and famous, esteemed as holy by the mass of people describes a disciple who has died and passed on in terms of places of rebirth: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there." Even when the disciple is an ultimate person, a foremost person, attained to the foremost attainment, Ajita Kesakambala describes him, when he has died and passed on, in terms of places of rebirth: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there."
"This contemplative Gotama the leader of a community, the leader of a group, the teacher of a group, honored and famous, esteemed as holy by the mass of people — describes a disciple who has died and passed on in terms of places of rebirth: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there." But when the disciple is an ultimate person, a foremost person, attained to the foremost attainment, Gotama the contemplative does not describe him, when he has died and passed on, in terms of places of rebirth: "That one is reborn there; that one is reborn there." Instead, he describes him thus: "He has cut through craving, severed the fetter, and by rightly breaking through conceit has made an end of suffering & stress."'
"So I was simply befuddled. I was uncertain: How is the teaching of Gotama the contemplative to be understood?"
"Of course you are befuddled, Vaccha. Of course you are uncertain. When there is a reason for befuddlement in you, uncertainty arises. I designate the rebirth of one who has sustenance, Vaccha, and not of one without sustenance. Just as a fire burns with sustenance and not without sustenance, even so I designate the rebirth of one who has sustenance and not of one without sustenance."
"But, Master Gotama, at the moment a flame is being swept on by the wind and goes a far distance, what do you designate as its sustenance then?"
"Vaccha, when a flame is being swept on by the wind and goes a far distance, I designate it as wind-sustained, for the wind is its sustenance at that time."
"And at the moment when a being sets this body aside and is not yet reborn in another body, what do you designate as its sustenance then?"
"Vaccha, when a being sets this body aside and is not yet reborn in another body, I designate it as craving-sustained, for craving is its sustenance at that time."
