What is your experience with Dzogchen?

Dzogchen is a practice that has captured my attention recently as well, and I hope to receive teachings on it. From what I gather, it's the sort of thing that is entirely dependent on transmission from a qualified master, who gives "pointing out instructions" that allow the student to directly contact the "clear light" of primordial consciousness. The beginning and end of it is abiding within this most subtle aspect of mind. It is considered the highest vehicle within Tibetan Buddhism, beyond even the highest yoga tantra. The clear light is ALWAYS there, it is pure consciousness, so I don't think it's makes sense to say Dzogchen leads to jhana or insight, but my guess is that practicing it could enhance both. I think it is better understood in terms of cultivating the non-dual/non-conceptual view.

Edit: Came across this PDF that gives an overview of Dzogchen, including some discussion of how it fits in the context of Vipassana and some other Buddhist systems:

http://holybooks.lichtenbergpress.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Introduction-to-Dzogchen.pdf

A few years ago, I read about Dzogchen, and went to a local Tibetan Buddhist group to see what was up.

Everyone, no matter what stage you're at, starts at the same place. About a year of Hinayana practice. Basic shamatha and vippasana practice. Then you do about a year of Mahayana practice. Then about a year of Vajrayana practice. Then you are ready to get in touch with the Dzogchen Ponlop, and receive a direct transmission. You need to be in a place where you're ready for such a transmission - in terms of your morality, meditation practice, etc.

You can't just wander in off the street, and present yourself as someone who is worthy because of past experience in other traditions. As far as I could tell, Dzogchen transmission is done between a teacher and a student that is ready, after the student has already reached the Tibetan equivalent of stream entry, possibly higher paths. It's a 'pointing out' of something to do with the nature of enlightenment, it's not supposed to get you there, it's a deepening. I might be completely wrong about all of this.

I don't have a lot of time to share experiences at the moment, but I've found it helpful to just have a pragmatic attitude about different contemplative systems. That is, treat them as complete systems, like alternative OS's that run different 'apps' (specific practices). I've found this is a good way to engage multiple systems; otherwise I'll tend to shoe-horn the experiences of one into the language of the other and vice-versa. Ultimately the maps are not the territory any way and they all have pragmatic or poetic value but aren't really 'true'.

I was deeply interested in dzogchen about a month ago, and there's a few masters who do direct transmission via video stream. I never got around to watching them, as they're held periodically throughout the year, but you ought to look it up and give it a shot, as they're reported to be legit.

Chogyal Namkai Norbu Rinpoche is awesome. I'd definitely recommend connecting with his Dzogchen Community, doing one of the streamed transmissions and checking out the practices of its something you're attracted to. His books are great introductions to Dzogchen as well (Crystal and the Way of Light, and Dzogchen: the self-perfected state are great. You'll get a hefty dose of the core teachings of radical dzogchen plus a good taste of its cultural flavor which will clue you in to whether you will dig his presentation of the teachings). He's pretty unusual in my experience in that he presents Dzogchen in a format that is more similar to how it was originally developed and transmitted before it became hybridized with Mahayana monasticism. There's a whole interesting history to radical Dzogchen for those interested.

Noah_il_matto

Dzogchen is super advanced secret sauce. I don't really know what Dzogchen is. Most teaching on it is earlier stuff being called Dzogchen. This does not mean that all these other things are not awesomely useful. Exercises inspired by Dzogchen like "resting in awareness" do sound like a really good idea. But it can also be useful to clarify terminology.

Edit: To elaborate on OP. Dzogchen would probably be more Vipassana then Samatha, and might involve exercises that take place within Jhana, although the Tibetans would never admit that.

I have been interested in Dzogchen for about two years so here is a rough summary of what I have found. This is off the top of my head and a layman's 'interpretation' so If anyone has more experience feel free to correct my errors or omissions.

Dzogchen and other forms of Tibetan Buddhism can be hard to grasp for the layperson without some guidance or at least a teacher from a recognized lineage. it is more esoteric and dense than the original Teravedan traditions. These can be quite straightforward focusing on fundamental Buddhist principles and teachings presented in a logical and straightforward manner.

Dzogchen and Mahamudra however are both branches of 'Buddhist Yoga' for want of a better description. The Buddhist fundamentals on which they are based are from the Mahayana Buddhist movement (a branch started about 500 years after the death of the original Buddha). The Mahayana includes traditions in Japan like Zen etc. In Tibet however they have a sort of mashup of this with the Hindu/Yogic traditions and a smattering of the indigineous Tibetan Bon religion. So as you can imagine it gets a bit more complicated and detailed in range of techniques and ideas. Tibetan Buddhism began when a group of Indian Mahasiddhas (yogi/buddhists) brought their own version of Buddhism to Tibet. So if you wanted a sort of fusion of Buddhism with the older Yogic traditions then Mahamudra/Dzogchen would be worth investigating. Dzogchen means, 'the great perfection.' So presumably the Mahasiddhas believed that they had discovered something special. A range of advanced techniques that were a means of achieving enlightenment in one lifetime.

What you get is a dense and quite esoteric practice layered with all sorts of religious ritual and formality. There are things like daquinis (female goddesses) as well as rathful and benevolent deities with religious symbolism and iconography. This can make it difficult to assimilate for a Westerner. Alot of the ritual has real practical benefit but it's presented in a cultural context that can be hard to grasp intuitively without guidance. There are preliminary practices like 'seeking refuge' and 'guru yoga,' these might seem like trivial religious dogma to the outsider but are just part of the delivery system in teaching practical techniques that can help in terms of motivation, perseverance and overcoming common obstacles.

Dzogchen is a complete system from beginning to end. For me it's like a fusion of 500 years worth of refining and experimenting with the original Buddhist teachings with the ideas of a group of yogis who embraced it later. They then introduced this system to Tibet. It fused with elements of Bon and ultimately became Tibetan Buddhism. The fundamental Buddhist ideas are all there but with a wider range of available techniques to open the mind and experience reality as it really is. Although it can be challenging to comprehend initially. If you persevere you find there is sometimes more specific practical detail in basic meditation practices too that can help any practitioner regardless of the tradition they follow. So things that at first seem impenetrable get easier as you become more famliar with the language and terminology, the effort pays off I suppose. Personally I think you need a solid grounding in concentration practice first (samatha) as these techniques all build on that clarity and stability. They can be difficult to 'get' or maintain without a certain competence in the basics and a degree of mental stability. Samatha and Vipassana are both incorporated into Dzogchen. A typical order might be 1. Samatha 2.Vipassana 3.Dzogchen.

For an interesting background check out this famous doc. 'The Yogis of Tibet" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFSjxc2Vg14

Source

https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/5hsmsr/practice_what_is_your_experience_with_dzogchen/

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